Mill Valley Physics Class with M1 Carbine

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MILL VALLEY
Physics teacher under fire for gun experiment
Parent's complaint raises issue about legality of stunt
- Peter Fimrite, Chronicle Staff Writer
Thursday, May 25, 2006

Every year, physics teacher David Lapp brings his Korean War era M-1 carbine to school, fires a shot into a block of wood and instructs his students to calculate the velocity of the bullet.

It is a popular experiment at Mill Valley's Tamalpais High School, where students are exposed to several unique stunts that Lapp performs in his five classes every year to illustrate inertia, velocity and other complex formulae.

Turns out, it also may be illegal.

It is a felony to bring any rifle, loaded or unloaded, onto a school campus without the written permission of the school district superintendent or his designee, according to Marin County District Attorney Ed Berberian.

Actually firing a gun inside a classroom would, in all probability, be considered a "reckless discharge" and could bring about harsher punishment under Penal Code section 626.9, better known as the Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.

The problem of guns in schools has been a particularly emotional issue, especially since two students went on a rampage and killed 15 people at Columbine High School, in Littleton, Colo., on April 20, 1999.

Through it all, though, the focus has always been on students with guns. Nobody expected teachers to bring firearms to school.

"I'm hoping that this is not happening in Marin County," said Berberian, who groaned when informed that it was. "If he just did this in an open classroom with a block of wood, there could be ricochets. That in itself would be a presumption of recklessness."

The rifle demonstration would not even be an issue if an anonymous parent had not complained.

Lapp, a former military police officer who has been teaching for 20 years, said it is the first complaint ever lodged against the so-called "ballistic pendulum" experiment, which he contends is completely safe.

The .30-caliber bullet, he said, is fired into a foot-long, 8-pound block of wood hanging by cords from a ceiling mount. The students take measurements of the block's movement and mass and use that information to calculate bullet speed.

He said he fires the shot from point-blank range with all the students standing behind him, so there is no danger of an accident or ricochet. There has never been an injury or close call, he added.

"I've been doing this for years," said Lapp, who skipped two or three years after Columbine. "The students love it. They ask about it very early on in the year. It's one of the more exciting demonstrations."

Exciting is not the word, said Ted Feinberg, the assistant executive director for the National Association of School Psychologists.

"It's just absolute madness, from my point of view," said Feinberg, one of the founding members of the National Emergency Assistance Team, which has responded to most of the school shootings in the country. "It is not only crazy in concept, in light of the world we live in it is absolutely irresponsible."

Feinberg said he is shocked that a teacher would bring a gun to school in the wake of tragedies like Columbine, regardless of the educational purpose.

"Were there not other ways of illustrating whatever physical principles he was trying to demonstrate?" Feinberg asked. "What's the message we are giving bringing a loaded gun into a public setting and firing it off. It's a terrible model to project on students."

Lapp, who served in the Army from 1977 to 1980, became a teacher in 1986. He said he and the former Tamalpais High principal checked the legality of the experiment when he first started doing it around 1992 and determined that there were no laws against it. It has recently been done with the full written consent of Principal Chris Holleran.

Although Bob Ferguson, the current superintendent of the Tamalpais Union High School District, was unaware of the experiment, both Lapp and Holleran said they believed the ballistic pendulum experiment was legal.

"It is certainly something that one pauses about, but we felt that it was something that was OK because of the educational value," Holleran said. "Most students get a lot out of it. It's an interesting and dramatic example of physics in action."

Holleran said school administrators and the district will review the legality of the experiment and immediately make changes if, in fact, what Lapp is doing is illegal.

Unusual experiments are a hallmark of Lapp's five physics classes, two of which are honors courses. In addition to the ballistics test, Lapp also lies on a bed of nails and invites students to break a cinder block on his chest with a sledge hammer.

"It's a demonstration of Newton's law of inertia," he said.

In another experiment, Lapp cooks a steak in 15 seconds between two sheets of metal that are hooked up to a wall outlet.

"If you were a senior in high school and you were wondering what the relevance of high school was, it would be much more authentic if you measured actual things, like the speed of a bullet," Lapp said. "It lends authenticity to a classroom."

It is not clear what will happen now, but, Holleran said, if the school's approval of Lapp's experiment was a mistake, it was in an attempt to reach out in an innovative way to teenagers.

"He's a terrific teacher who does a lot of wonderful things to bring physics to life," Holleran said. "The students really get a lot out of his class, so we provide him with a lot of latitude. We've never had complaints about (the ballistic pendulum experiment), and it has probably been done in front of 900 to 1,000 students over the years."


URL: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/05/25/BAGO0J1C5O18.DTL
©2006 San Francisco Chronicle
 
What's the message we are giving bringing a loaded gun into a public setting and firing it off.

WE'RE EDUCATING PEOPLE TO NOT BE AFRAID OF INANIMATE OBJECTS! :fire:

jmm
 
Creating interest and TEACHING physics---isn't that what he is SUPPOSED to be doing!!??

As a retired physics and chemistry teacher, I have done the same experiment! It is a wonderful experiment and can lead to a LOT of teaching/learning. I also know that there are a LOT of other experiments done in science classes that are far more dangerous than this one!

Nobody rages against all the scrapes, bumps, bruises, broken bones, bloody noses, sparined ankles-knees-shoulders, etc in athletics. NOBODY WAS HURT here AND they learned something!

LET THE GUY ALONE! He is NOT one of the usless clods who holds a boring, mundane class with the only purpose of warehousing kids for an hour each day! Of course, in this ultra-PC society, the latter is the one society rewards rather than the former! SAD!
 
The problem of guns in schools has been a particularly emotional issue, especially since two students went on a rampage and killed 15 people at Columbine High School, in Littleton, Colo., on April 20, 1999.


Oh, yes, I remember the fear I had of guns in school when that happened. That one event 1500 miles away from me has emotionally scarred me forever.



Anyone who was not closely involved in an incident such as Columbine has severe psychological problems if it is an "emotional issue" for them because of that. People were shot across the street from my high school and nobody cared. These people need to get over it.
 
Don't you just love it? ""I'm hoping that this is not happening in Marin County," said Berberian, who groaned when informed that it was. "If he just did this in an open classroom with a block of wood, there could be ricochets. That in itself would be a presumption of recklessness." Weenie.

And of course the psychiatrist is wetting his pants wondering "what's the message" on this "absolute madness". Ever read a better definition of bedwetting liberal than this guys comments?
 
The problem of guns in schools has been a particularly emotional issue, especially since two students went on a rampage and killed 15 people at Columbine High School, in Littleton, Colo., on April 20, 1999.

Yes, of course, as we all know, a physics teacher doing a real-life demonstration is just one step removed from two deranged loners wreaking mayhem among their classmates. ::sarcasm::
:fire: :cuss: :banghead:

"He's a terrific teacher who does a lot of wonderful things to bring physics to life," Holleran said. "The students really get a lot out of his class, so we provide him with a lot of latitude. We've never had complaints about (the ballistic pendulum experiment), and it has probably been done in front of 900 to 1,000 students over the years."

Yep, and that's what should be emphasized here, as opposed to manufactured emotional issues...

Nobody expected teachers to bring firearms to school.
Maybe not, but talk to the good folks in Pearl, Mississippi and ask them what they thought of Pearl High School assistant principal Joel Myrick's decision to stow his .45 in his car the day Luke Woodham came up there with a rifle and opened fire on his classmates. Oh, wait, I forgot, we're talking about a completely different country here...
 
This isn't as an explicit violation (if at all) of the Gun-Free School Zone Act of 95 as the article wants people to believe (big surprise). There are decidedly demonstrational AND an instructional elements to this experiment. Either of these reasons would easily fit the discharge into one of the listed exemptions to the act.

There may still be a local, state, or another federal law against carrying or discharging the gun, but he did not violate the stated law.

Here's the law Gun-Free Schools Actsubsection (q)(2)

There can be some debate about whether the discharge was approved by the school, but as it has been a part of his curriculum for years and he did have explicit permission to teach the curriculum, he has a legitimate argument that he had tactic permission to discharge.

edit: got the current law, which is only slightly different, but apparently legal...
 
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Marin County is the Feelgood capitol of the planet!

:mad: I'm surprised the Socialist Board of Education up there allowed a teacher capable of thinking to survive this long:confused: :fire:
 
After reading through that mess, I now see why the drafting of laws has been compared to the making of sausage.

Yet, I also see that the teacher did not violate federal law, but IANAL, so maybe the logical conclusion is the wrong one.
 
(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

Not to mention the fact that, as guns in schools don't affect interstate commerce, the whole law can never apply, along with a host of other federal laws that use the commerce clause that have nothing to do with commerce...
 
In handgun defense classes locally we are reminded that when all is said and done most cities have laws against discharge of firearms within city limits and some bozo can always invoke that for even the otherwise most justifiable of situations. :fire:

I would expect that Mill Valley has such a law. :(
 
My physics teacher did something similar by bringing a Ruger Mini-30 to class. He held up the cartridge and asked if anyone knew what it was. Alicia was like "a bullet?" I was like "7.62x39." And he was like "Very good Robert. And this would be?"

"A Ruger Mini-30."

I then proceeded to rattle off the barrel length and aprox muzzle velocity for a 125 gr soft point. I think we were trying to figure out pressure or something like that. I just thought that experiment, as well as the 20 min session in a previous class discussing his collection of Glocks, made him the coolest teacher ever in my book. His classes were interesting and fun.

It is a pity that such efforts to earn the interest of the students are being punished. The sad fact is that teachers aren't paid to teach any more, and students don't go to school to learn.
 
I saw a lot more dangerous stuff than that in High school science class. Like the time my lab partner caught the chemistry lab on fire.:eek:

This is exactly the kind of teaching we need in schools. It gets the kids intersted in learning. In my senior year physics class, we had to build a complex machine that would lift 8 pounds 3 feet off of the ground. In groups of 4 we worked on this for 3 weeks. And I learned more in those 3 weeks than the rest of my entire year. Why? Because it was fun.
 
For a physics project in high school, I brought in different pellets I had shot into media at different velocities to discuss the effects of velocity and projectile shape.

These days, I would probably be referred to a psychologist and transferred to an "alternative" school.

I despise what our country is becoming.
 
Those parents etc would soil themselves if they ever saw the experiments we did in Chem & Physics at my highschool...
Yea, between the sodium and thermite, a little M-1 Carbine looks like a play toy.
 
That teacher should be promoted! I guarantee you that those other 999 students he's showed that demonstration to can probably still explain the physics of the principle he was illustrating. What an amazingly brilliant way to apply physics to real life and to use everyday items as a tool to cement the concept in children's minds.

My former physics teachers came up with some cool and applicable demonstrations of their own, but none using a firearm. I would have LOVED that demo, and I guarantee you I'd never have forgotten it. Things that leave an impression like that never leave you. I can still recall physics concepts based on real life demos like that.

Our screwed up society will probably throw him in jail. :banghead: Meanwhile, some criminal who breaks into that guy's house, kills his family, and gets shot will walk free and live the good life with the millions he won in the civil suit against his victim. And the terrorist involved in thousands of deaths on 9/11 escapes the death penalty while wackos preach to support his rights. And other people are executed for lesser crimes. Man, I hate our legal system.... :fire:
 
Principal Skinner:Uh-oh. Two "Independent Thought Alarms" in one day. The students are over stimulated. Willy, remove all the colored chalk from the classrooms.

Willy: I warned yah'! Didn't I warn yah?! That colored chalk was forged by Lucifer himself!
 
Considering that this experiment is usually done with a demo device made just for it, I've used it to teach the same lesson, where varous sized steel balls are spring fired at a magnet weight to capture the balls I'm not sure that the additional risk of doing it his way is laudable. Cool, theatrical, interesting, but not the safest way to teach the principals of inelastic collisions.
 
That Marin County?

A friend of mine moved from Chicago to Marin county years and years ago.

I visited him a couple of months after Jeff and his family got moved in. His wife told me their neighbors were all going to a protest. Apparently there was a serial killer stalking the trails and paths in the area and he had strangled 5 or 6 women when they went jogging.

I asked her what they were going to do and my buddy buried his face in his hands and said (I am not making this up!) "They are having a protest dance against the strangler".

A bunch of these Eloi had decided to vent their frustration through interprative dance against this violence. I asked his wife if they had just considered getting ropes, torches and pitchforks and scouring the countryside and hanging anyone they found with extra rope on them along these paths and trails.

Marin county is the Moon Cow center of the universe. It's where they send the people from Berkeley that are too far left.

This poor (but brilliant) teacher will be publicly beaten about the head and shoulders in the all the papers and eventually have his contract/tenure revoked and fired I'm afraid.
 
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