Milsurp Bolt Action Rifle Choice

[Lone wanderer]

Looking for a 1st rifle, mostly for range shooting or light hunting. I want something tough accurate and I love History. I'm trying to choose between a Mosin Nagant or a SMLE; which would I get the best deal out of?
Ammo Prices?
Accuracy?
Easy Use?
Historical Value?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

By all means the SMLE, especially the Number 4 with its aperture sight.

My number one choice in military bolt actions is the Springfield 03A3, again with an aperture sight.

 

[Robert]

SMLE hands down. Most people like the No4 MkI or MkII but I am a huge fan of the No1 MkIII. Either one is a great rifle.

 

[DBryant]

Well, I haven't priced SMLE's lately but my buddy just picked up a Mosin for under a hundred bucks. It's kinda hard to beat that price.

I haven't seen any .303 Brit surplus lately so I took a look at gun-deals.com. They didn't list any. The cheapest thing they had was Privi-Partizan at about 68 cents a round before shipping.

Looking at their listing for 7.62x54R show old Russian surplus at about 16-17 cents a round before shipping. I would say if you're looking for an inexpensive rifle that is cheap to shoot and can take deer sized game, the M-N looks like just the ticket.

You might want to do a little research on what to look for to get a good one. I've never owned one myself, although I have shot several, but I'm sure other people here can help you out in that area.

 

[Dr.Rob]

I'd skip both those and get a Mauser.

Not that the other two don't have value, but the Mauser 98 action is the most used bolt action in the world for a hunting rifle.

You won't guarantee great accuracy in any surplus rifle, most weren't manufactured to accuracy specs we see today in hunting rifles.

Surplus ammo is readily available for .303, 7.62x54 Russian and 8mm Mauser. Good .303 is harder to find than the other 2. Many commercial loads are downloaded compared to military spec ammo. A lot of surplus ammo is corrosive, so you have to clean your rifle accordingly when shooting it. (Hot water and soap do the trick, it isn't rocket science.)

Moisins and SMLE's certainly have historical significance, but the Enfields cost more to buy than the average Moisin. Mausers can be had for around the same price as an SMLE.

Moisins remain the cheapest way to go.

All are stone simple to use and are rugged as all get out.

 

[Phaethon]

Just get both. You can easily get an Enfield No. 4 for $200, and a Mosin Nagant will only add around 70-90$ to that price. The Mk III's are pricier and heavier and come with military sights; you'll probably achieve greater accuracy with the No. 4's aperture sights regardless of the capabilities of the weapon. We can assume that either one will be expected to shoot 2-3MOA - there are of course diamonds in the rough, but accuracy with any milsurp is hit-or-miss. I've never loaded an Enfield with chargers, but I can tell you that the Mosin's are a PITA to load quickly under duress. Surplus .303 practically doesn't exist anymore. Modern production is cheaper, but nothing beats Eastern Bloc corrosive surplus that you can buy 20 rounds for 6$ with.

As for ease of use, anyone will tell you that the Enfield's bolt is slick and fast. The Mosin's is considerably clunkier, and the chamber must be heavily cleaned of Cosmoline before you can attain smooth reliable functionality. The short bolt handles allows little leverage in operation. Historical value tends to fall towards the Enfield, but a lot of No. 4's were manufactured post-WWII

The Mosin is often underrated in terms of historical value just because of the fact that there's so damn many of them, but it's food for thought that at one point or another, they've been pointed at the armies of nearly every country in the West (Ukraine, Japan, Lithuania, Poland, Germany, Finland, Austria, Hungary, America, Britain, Estonia, Latvia, Turkey, France, Romania, Czechoslovakia, Mongolia, Greece, Italy, Bulgaria, Georgia, and most importantly, Russia). They've seen the brunt of both World Wars and most of everything in between, and I feel that an early production Mosin has as much claim to history as any other rifle.

Personally I'd suggest getting a Mauser 98 variant, though. I'm a sucker for its rimless rounds.

 

[DBryant]

I can't argue against getting a Mauser. The first rifle I owned was a Turkish Mauser. The thing kicked like a mule and I hated that triangle front sight but overall I loved it. It shot well and loved cheap surplus ammo.

That was back when Turks were $100. These days there are Yugo and Czech Mausers that can be had for below $200. These are arguably better than the Turk I had and they're not as long either.

The ammo right now isn't that much more than 7.62x54r. It looks like Yugo surplus on stripper clips is going for 20-25 cents a round.

You could definitely do worse than picking up a Mauser. One word of caution with buying old military bolt guns: it's a good idea have the headspace checked, especially if the serial numbers on the bolt, action, or barrel don't match each other. Most of them are fine but I have heard of some that were not.

 

[Kendal Black]

My favorite military surplus is the Swedish Mauser, but between the two you named, I'd take the Lee Enfield.

Why?

Seen too many rough and ratty Mosins, worked over by arsenal personnel (or importers) who were suffering from Clue Deficit Disorder. The Swedes looked after their guns. So did the Brits and Aussies. A Cannuck .303 might not be too bad...if it isn't a Ross.

 

[Lone wanderer]

Didn't realize that mausers were so preferred, I'll have to throw them into the hat now. makes the choice that much harder...

 

[offroader1006]

Mosins are cheap, and ammo is plentiful.

they can be accurate, but the sights on the M91/30's are less than desirable, and mounting an optic means modifying the receiver.

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

I like Mausers personally, but the Enfields are nice too.

The 8mm Mauser is the best compromise between history, looks, accuracy, ammo prices and availability, IMO.

 

[isc]

Of all my milsurps (I own 20+)my favorite is the FR8. It's a large ring mauser chambered for .308.

It'll handle all the cheap surplus ammo as well as any commercial loads. It has sights that are far superior to the K98. You get a longer sight radius, rear aperture sights, rear notch sights, and a handy 20" barrel.

I can't think of a single improvement I'd want with the possible exception of a picatenny rail scope mount.

 

[35 Whelen]

Between the first two you mentioned, hands-down the Enfield. I've owned a half dozen Mosins and No.4 Enfields as well as three Ishapore Enfields. I only have one Mosin left and I hope to be rid of it soon. I'll be flamed for saying this, but they're clunky, crude rifles (as are most rifles produced under the same circumstances) in my experience. Yes, you can find them for $90, but then you have a $90 rifle.
I still have two No.4's, and two No.2 Ishapores. I like the No.4's, except for the caliber. But Prvi has solved that problem.
Since you did use the blanket term "SMLE", I'll throw the No.2 Ishapore into the ring. The three I owned had/have near perfect bores, shoot reasonably well, and best of all are chambered for the plentiful .308/7.62 NATO. They can be had in the $200-$250 range.
Now, not to stray from the original post, (Vern started it!!) but if there's any way you can fork over the extra $$$, take Vern's advice and get an 03A3. I have two and they are incredibly accurate...almost as much so as my Swiss K-31's. And of course ammunition can be had anywhere.


Good luck with your decision,
35W

 

[gunnutery]

I say start with a SMLE or a Mosin Nagant. The SMLE's are a great gun, but no surplus ammo right now (mine is dwindling). The Nagant surplus ammo is very abundant right now as are the rifles so the cost is pretty low on both ends.

Either way, enjoy.

 

[jpwilly]

For hunting the SMLE! Better sights, better bolt action. Probably very similar in the accuracy dept. I like to tinker and tune them up. Handloading is a must IMO. But like 35 Whelen said spend some more money and look at the Swiss K-31 or a Finn M39 Mosin too they are much more accurate rifles for around $300.

 

[AethelstanAegen]

I have an M91/30 and a Yugo M24/47 (Mauser 98 action). I plan to one day add an SMLE to the collection but haven't yet (mostly due to the high cost of ammo). You really can't go wrong with any of them (in terms of cheap, the M91/30 easily wins out) but I would have to recommend the Mauser. The Yugo versions (M24/47 and M48) can be found for $200 in great shape (ie virtually a brand new rifle). 8mm Mauser ammo (7.92x57) is pretty darn cheap (not quite as cheap as 7.62x54r but close) and my 24/47 is wicked accurate...ie any misses are my fault and not the rifle's. I much prefer the Mauser 98 safety over the Mosin-Nagant too. I would definitely look in Mausers (there's plenty to choose from) and consider the SMLE for a later date when bang for buck isn't quite as important. Whatever you decide, you're going to love it. I feel obligated to warn you that collecting milsurp rifles is HIGHLY addictive.

 

[GunsBeerFreedom]

No K31? For shame....

Between the two you listed I'd suggest the Mosin for economy. I have both, and the Enfield is certainly an amazing rifle. I just prefer the MN, for no real good reason other than I like it's looks better and its cheaper ammo. If you want to open up your search, two guns I'd suggest are the MAS36 and the K31.

 

[HGM22]

Mosin Nagants will probably be around a long time so if you want more than one milsurp I'd get a K31, Mauser, Enfield, etc. first. You can always pick up a Mosin later.

I'd personally pass on the Enfield because of a lack of good surplus ammo. If .303 surplus were cheaper and more available I'd probably get the Enfield though.

I have a Yugo 24/47 Mauser and I like it a lot. I believe it was re-arsenaled so its in very good plus condition. I still see them for about $170. Surplus 8mm is still available too, and the chargers are easy to use.

Don't have a K31; been kicking myself for not picking one up for $90 several years ago. Supposed to be very accurate, though ammo will dry up quicker than the other milsurps (probably at least; not sure when they stopped making GP11).

The real problem with milsurps is that there are so many good deals!

 

[Dr.Rob]

I take it back I haven't found ANY surplus .303 for sale online at all the usual suspect sites.

.303 is going to be more expensive to shoot.

 

[DBryant]

One minor point of disagreement. offroader1006 said that mounting any optic to an M-N requires drilling and tapping the receiver. This is not entirely correct. There are mounts that replace the rear leaf sight available from S&K and Tickbite Supply.

These do limit you to long eye relief scopes, pistol scopes, and red-dots, but they do allow you to mount an optic without any permanent modifications. There are also versions that can be had for Mausers, SKS's, AK's and probably others that I'm not aware of. (to leave a preposition dangling)

My general feelings are that these guns are desirable because they're inexpensive, but good. Finding an inexpensive but good pistol scope or red-dot in the same price range is not as easy. Buy them for what they are and shoot them with irons. If you want an inexpensive but good scoped bolt gun, I think one would be better served with a used Savage.

 

[Ignition Override]

If you are Not going to do any permanent alterations, an Enfield #4/Mk. 1, or at a higher price for a given condition, a #4/Mk. 2.
Be aware that boat tail (BT) bullets often don't work in the Longbranch with 2-groove rifling.
One of mine makes long keyhole gashes at 100 yards, instead of small round holes.

My gun buddies/friends who are all middle-aged never consider buying a classic military rifle which has been perm. altered, other than (maybe) a matching wooden stock which is easy to replace and fit.

If you reload, only neck-sizing can allow using commercial Prvi .303 cases an extra four times or more. Less than a year ago, suddenly there was some surplus .303 at two popular distributors at about .50rd., which has dried up, but why not buy clean Prvi with Boxer primers for about the same price?

Did the Greeks sell all of their Boxer-primed HXP .303 years ago, or did their fellow Euro/Brit. overlords (by treaty, maybe UN?) ban any more exports to the US etc?

 

[Rubber_Duck]

My all-time favorite surplus rifle is the Finnish M39 Mosin-Nagant. They are one of the most accurate mil-surps ever made and the ammo is very cheap and easy to find (even better if you order 2 or 3 spam cans online, they will last you a long time). The action itself is like any other Mosin but the stock feels nice and the sights are great. I recommend one for every gun owner.

My second favorite is the German Kar 98K Mauser. I love the look of the Germans. I have 3 of them, and a Yugoslavian-captured German 98K. Beautiful rifles, smooth action, very accurate, all of mine are. The ammo is more expensive than 7.62x54R but still allows for tons of range time, ammo is cheap and plentiful as well. And the history is certainly there. Lot's of engineering and a great design all around. My experience is limited to the German 98Ks but I'm sure there are other great Mausers that would hold a valid place in anyone's safe.

I don't recommend buying a Lee-Enfield unless you intend to hang it over the fire place. I made the mistake of buying a Jungle Carbine and I've never shot it because I have never been able to find .303 ammo anywhere locally. I've found ammo for it online but when I buy online I buy in bulk, and I think to myself "look how much more 8mm or 7.62x54R I can buy for the price of 500 rounds of .303." So guess which of my mil-surps get shot more and which one sits in the safe untouched. On the plus side, the action is very quick and short and the ten-round capacity seems like it would be quite fun.

 

[rogertc1]

For current prices check here... www.gunbroker.com
Start with the mosln and accessories and work your way from that. In not time you will have one of everything.
Moslin has options...study them. Hex recievers, round recievers, long ones, carbines,laminated stocks, and where manufactured.

 

[earlthegoat2]

I have a No 4 Mk 1 Lee Enfield and I want a 6.5x55 Swede Mauser.

An often overlooked gun is the 7mm VZ-24. They are a little less common than the 8mm version but usually are close to equal cost. 7mm is a great cartridge to spend a day at the range with and the VZ-24s are solid BRNO made rifles on the extremely tough 98 action. This rifle is just about the best of all Mausers combined.

 

[madcratebuilder]

Swiss K-31, Lee Enfield No4 or a Yugo Mauser. The K31 is a phenomenal rifle, very accurate and GP11 surplus ammo is match grade. The No4 shoots well and has better sights than most mil-surps but good surplus ammo is hard to find. The Yugo Mausers can be found in near new condition for little money, plenty of surplus around.