dodging230grainers
Member
Just wondering what the most iron-sights only accurate bolt-action milsurp rifle is.
Remember, no scope, iron-sights only.
Remember, no scope, iron-sights only.
Most accurate milsurp bolt action rifle?
- Thread starter dodging230grainers
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glimmerman
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Kind of a toss up between the 1903 - 1903a3 springfield and the finnish mosin nagant with a sako barrel.
Father Knows Best
Member
You're all wrong. It's the Swedish mauser rifles in 6.5x55, such as the M96 and M38. Probably the "most accurate" is the M41 sniper version. These were built from M96's that were hand selected for accuracy. While they were issued with scopes, they exist with irons and are supremely accurate with the irons (scopes don't make rifles more accurate -- they just make it easier to see your target).
raubritter
Member
K31 straight-pull.
wnycollector
Member
I have a pre-war S code 98K that is is scary accurate even with S#!T romanian surplus ammo
...but I will concede the Swiss and Swede made some real shooters!
...but I will concede the Swiss and Swede made some real shooters!Domino
Member
+1 for Swiss M96
The Swiss had the highest standards for their rifles.
The Swiss had the highest standards for their rifles.
Kimber1911_06238
Member
good condition 1903 or K31
aspade
Member
If you're limiting the question to as issued irons, the 1903A3 hands down. A 2 minute gun with an aperture sight on the rear bridge has more useable accuracy than a half minute gun with a ladder on the barrel.
Jim Watson
Member
'96 Swede.
Friend of mine has one that is very accurate. He kept it and sold his K31.
It helps that his eyesight and nerves let him squeeze the best out of barleycorn sights, he is kind of a phenomenon that way.
Pity the early cheap good quality 6.5 and 7.5 ammo has been plinked up. I suspect there are a lot of those fine rifles getting kicked to the back of the closet in favor of crude old Moisin Nagants that they just keep finding warehouses of 7.62x54R for.
Friend of mine has one that is very accurate. He kept it and sold his K31.
It helps that his eyesight and nerves let him squeeze the best out of barleycorn sights, he is kind of a phenomenon that way.
Pity the early cheap good quality 6.5 and 7.5 ammo has been plinked up. I suspect there are a lot of those fine rifles getting kicked to the back of the closet in favor of crude old Moisin Nagants that they just keep finding warehouses of 7.62x54R for.
_N4Z_
Member
Finn M39
Swiss K31
Swede Mauser
Spring 1903
any of the above be my top picks.
i have a 1942 Finn B-barrel that with the irons, on occasion, will shoot 5 shot, 4" groups at 300 yards. and that is with 50 year old surplus ammo.
i call that pretty damn impressive.
Swiss K31
Swede Mauser
Spring 1903
any of the above be my top picks.
i have a 1942 Finn B-barrel that with the irons, on occasion, will shoot 5 shot, 4" groups at 300 yards. and that is with 50 year old surplus ammo.
i call that pretty damn impressive.
dodging230grainers
Member
Interesting. What's the recoil comparable to for the 6.5mm and 7.5mm Swiss cartridges?
My guess is the 6.5 kicks like a .308, and the 7.5 kicks more like a .30-06...
My guess is the 6.5 kicks like a .308, and the 7.5 kicks more like a .30-06...
My most accurate military surplus bolt action rifles are as follows:
Swedish 1896 & 1938 Mausers in 6.5x55
Finnish 28-30 and M-39 7.62x54R
K-31 Swiss 7.5
Springfield 1903A1 and 1903A3
Israeli KAR 98 Mauser in 7.62x51
Enfield 1917 .30-06
All will go under 2 inches at 100 yards many go 1 1/2 inches and depending on ammo the Swedish 1896 the K-31 Swiss and the Finnish 28-30 Mosin have gone under an inch at 100 yards.
Some of the Ishapore SMLE MK III 2A Enfields that are in good shape have also been good shooting rifles especially for the price paid.
Handloading does help as most surplus ammunition leaves much to be desired regarding accuracy.
YMMV
Swedish 1896 & 1938 Mausers in 6.5x55
Finnish 28-30 and M-39 7.62x54R
K-31 Swiss 7.5
Springfield 1903A1 and 1903A3
Israeli KAR 98 Mauser in 7.62x51
Enfield 1917 .30-06
All will go under 2 inches at 100 yards many go 1 1/2 inches and depending on ammo the Swedish 1896 the K-31 Swiss and the Finnish 28-30 Mosin have gone under an inch at 100 yards.
Some of the Ishapore SMLE MK III 2A Enfields that are in good shape have also been good shooting rifles especially for the price paid.
Handloading does help as most surplus ammunition leaves much to be desired regarding accuracy.
YMMV
LotI
Member
spuds said:
I agree. I may have to post the 100 yard target with my 1948 vintage K-31 and GP-11. Open sights with 4 shots touching and one flyer.
Float Pilot
Member
At one time there were regular international Military rifle matches in which all of the shooters from the various countries would use the rifles of the host country. The shooters were required to use issue military rifles.
The average best scores came from the years the matches were hosted by the Swiss, followed very closely by the Swedes.
While there are always super great rifles that pop up here and there in general production,,,,( I had a 1896 30-40 Krag that would out shoot any 1903 I ever owned),,,,, the Swiss and the Swedes never had to resort to war-time production cuts. So it is easy to see why the K-31s and M-96s are more likely to be accurate due to their superior craftsmanship.
Plus in the case of military host matches, the quality of the issue ammo would play a big role. Once again the Swiss and Swedes were not exactly pressed to make ammo in a big hurry.
The average best scores came from the years the matches were hosted by the Swiss, followed very closely by the Swedes.
While there are always super great rifles that pop up here and there in general production,,,,( I had a 1896 30-40 Krag that would out shoot any 1903 I ever owned),,,,, the Swiss and the Swedes never had to resort to war-time production cuts. So it is easy to see why the K-31s and M-96s are more likely to be accurate due to their superior craftsmanship.
Plus in the case of military host matches, the quality of the issue ammo would play a big role. Once again the Swiss and Swedes were not exactly pressed to make ammo in a big hurry.
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Essex County
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All things being equal ? That makes things interesting. I assume that means tailored handloads for each? Years ago I'd have said the Springfield, but now I think a good K 31 might have the capeability to give one a run for it's money. Essex
nwilliams
Member
Most accurate milsurp?
I would say my 1903 because it has the nicest trigger of the dozen or so various milsurps I have.
Although all of my milsurps are open sighted and since the only range I go to is 100 max I can't say for certain. Also not all milsurps are the same even if they are the same type of gun, the condition of the bore and other aspects come into play, not to mention the shooters ability level.
Its like the old argument of which is the best WW2 sniper rifle, how many times have people argued over this. Its the the 91/30....no its the K98....no its the 1903....etc...
I would say my 1903 because it has the nicest trigger of the dozen or so various milsurps I have.
Although all of my milsurps are open sighted and since the only range I go to is 100 max I can't say for certain. Also not all milsurps are the same even if they are the same type of gun, the condition of the bore and other aspects come into play, not to mention the shooters ability level.
Its like the old argument of which is the best WW2 sniper rifle, how many times have people argued over this. Its the the 91/30....no its the K98....no its the 1903....etc...
db_tanker
Member
out of the ones I have...
K-31
K-31
cracked butt
Member
K-31s, Swiss 1911s, and Swedish M96s are at the top of the heap.
I would give 03A3s a close second- they have very good sights which help alot, they are accurate rifles despite the fact that they are not anywhere near the build quality of the swiss or swede rifles.
I would give 03A3s a close second- they have very good sights which help alot, they are accurate rifles despite the fact that they are not anywhere near the build quality of the swiss or swede rifles.
The accuracy of the K31 I think has a lot to do with the GP-11 ammo.
It would be interesting to compare apples to apples, shooting a K31 with GP-11 vs a Finn M39 and an 03A3 with good handloads. Shooting GP11 vs Surplus Lake City vs Romanian Heavy Ball isn't a fair test.
It would be interesting to compare apples to apples, shooting a K31 with GP-11 vs a Finn M39 and an 03A3 with good handloads. Shooting GP11 vs Surplus Lake City vs Romanian Heavy Ball isn't a fair test.
Outlaws
Member
Supposedly the Swede M/96 had the highest across the board scoring of all time for those military competitions where various countries would go to a country and shoot the hosts rifle.
Edit
FloatPilot beat me to it, but I heard it was the Swede not the Swiss.
Edit
FloatPilot beat me to it, but I heard it was the Swede not the Swiss.
dstorm1911
Member
dodging230grainers, the 7.5 x55 Swiss is actually very similar to the .308 in ballistics with a lil less recoil.
As far as those figuring useing GP11 is an unfair advantage its actually your most accurate judge of which is the most accurate......Soldiers issued the 03 and 03a3 did not get custom handloads they got issue Lake city ammo, Soldiers issued the mausers did not get custom handloads they got...... get the idea if ya wanna see which is the most accurate include the whole package, the fact that the Swiss put extra care into developing match grade ammo to their soldiers while everyone else just cranked out basic blasting ammo is a large part of the reason the K 1911 and K31 are so deadly accurate and also why the rifles tend to have bores that are like new as well......
As far as the peep on the 03 that does not affect the rifles accuracy it effects the shooters ability to aim if they are more comfortable with a peep than a ladder mount all the rifles in a shooting machine then bore sight em on a target, load em with their respective issued ammo and lets see which one is the most accurate AS ISSUED at this point ya will have zero human involvement so the sights will not matter, just put lead down the tube......
As far as those figuring useing GP11 is an unfair advantage its actually your most accurate judge of which is the most accurate......Soldiers issued the 03 and 03a3 did not get custom handloads they got issue Lake city ammo, Soldiers issued the mausers did not get custom handloads they got...... get the idea if ya wanna see which is the most accurate include the whole package, the fact that the Swiss put extra care into developing match grade ammo to their soldiers while everyone else just cranked out basic blasting ammo is a large part of the reason the K 1911 and K31 are so deadly accurate and also why the rifles tend to have bores that are like new as well......
As far as the peep on the 03 that does not affect the rifles accuracy it effects the shooters ability to aim if they are more comfortable with a peep than a ladder mount all the rifles in a shooting machine then bore sight em on a target, load em with their respective issued ammo and lets see which one is the most accurate AS ISSUED
at this point ya will have zero human involvement so the sights will not matter, just put lead down the tube......- Status
