Minimum Acceptable Capacity For CCW

[rantingredneck]

Not to mention the fact that when the folks with badges and guns show up you don't want to be standing there with a drawn gun and no badge at the scene of a shooting.

I don't want to be shot by the good guys because they don't realize I'm not the bad guy.

 

[tn-dave]

great poll...I put 5 because that is what I carry in my SP101 sometimes

 

[bikerdoc]

1911turner and rantingredneck

you are absolutly correct. If I gave you the impression I was going to pull a John Wayne I apologize , my intent in a situation is to protect us and get us out of dodge, not be a hero. Proximity is the key word, getting to safety is operative principle and a weapon is the tool to accomplish the end means

 

[1911Tuner]

. If I gave you the impression I was going to pull a John Wayne...

Nope. Didn't think that. Seen too many of your other posts to think you'd storm the gates of hell with a pistol to save the orphans and rescue the damsel. Just didn't want an impressionable young lion to see it and think:

"YEAH! You go!"

Without a counterpoint.

 

[Anna's Dad]

Were is 1 in a derringer?

Seriously, I carry 6, but would probably be comfortable with less.

 

[-v-]

5 is the minimum, but more never hurts! There's never such thing as having too much ammo.

 

[bigdaddydan]

whatever to take care of the problem

 

[yakkingallover]

Day to day my beloved j-frame is with me I honestly feel five is enough for shopping and barbecues at friends homes. When I leave the shop I work at late at night on the dark and lonely end of the highway next door to where a friend was robbed by four guys capacity is the name of the game minimum 8+1 and an extra mag....

 

[Firepower!]

I like minimum of 15 rounds with me, but if I am going for ankle carry 7+ will do as well.

 

[jaysouth]

I walked a beat for many years in a "work and school free drug Zone". My carry( on my belt under a blouse or overcoat) was a department issued M-10 loaded with 158 gr. lead RN.

Sounds kind of archaic, but I never once felt undergunned. The two shootings that I attended up close were decisively ended with one shot each of the above mentioned load. I guess that neither one of the perps read gun mags. Both were dead before they hit the ground.

Since then I have worn the finishes off two airweight J Frames. Never had the occasion to take one out of my pocket, but I am very confidant that so armed, I can influence the outcome of any confrontation.

Acute situational awareness is worth two or three hi-cap magazines.

 

[Defensory]

14

In a primary CCW, I prefer a Springfield XD Compact .45 ACP with 13 rounds in the magazine and 1 in the chamber.

I wouldn't consider a 5 round snubbie for anything but a secondary backup for my primary weapon.

There are simply too many incidents every year involving multiple armed assailants. If several armed thugs attempt to waylay me, I want more than five rounds.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I wouldn't consider a 5 round snubbie for anything but a secondary backup for my primary weapon.

There are simply too many incidents every year involving multiple armed assailants. If several armed thugs attempt to waylay me, I want more than five rounds.

But when you live in a lazy little town where nothing bad ever happens a SD weapon is a just-in-case weapon. Under those circumstances 5 rounds in a J frame are more than enough IMO.

 

[Defensory]

Posted by ArchAngelCD
But when you live in a lazy little town where nothing bad ever happens a SD weapon is a just-in-case weapon. Under those circumstances 5 rounds in a J frame are more than enough IMO.

Sorry, but I'm not going to buy the old "it can't happen here" rationalization.

Drugs, violent crime, gang activity etc., has moved into a significant number of "lazy little towns" nationwide.

Believing that "it can't happen here" is a good prescription for tragedy. Violent crime isn't just a "big city" problem anymore.

Those who are well prepared will fare far better than those who aren't so well prepared. 14 rounds is ALWAYS better than 5. It's a no-brainer.

 

[possum]

i look at 7 as the lucky number personally, i carried a kahr k-40 for a long while and it was 6+1 and i was and still am fully confident in it.

 

[ScratchnDent]

5 rounds of .38+p will ruin anyone's day, if I do my part

 

[DMacLeod]

Minimum 5 w/ a revolver. If carrying one of my autos 7.

 

[wnycollector]

I carry either a 5 shot J frame or a 6 shot snubbie Ruger security six. I don't feel under gunned with either. I just picked up a .40 CZ that is 12+1 which may get some belt time once it is broken in!

 

[mr.72]

Well I am far less knowledgeable or experienced than most of you, for sure. But I am still kind of perplexed about the frequent choice that 5 rounds is enough.

Sure the conventional wisdom says that in most SD scenarios you will require 3 or fewer rounds. However it is an infinitesimally small chance you will ever be required to use a gun in self defense anyway, but you continue to carry a gun against these extremely small odds. So why not carry enough ammo to meet the needs even in the most unlikely of SD scenarios?

I suppose it is mostly out of convenience. It is mostly because you happen to have a 5-shot revolver that you like, so you are convinced that it is enough. But I wonder what the choice would be if there were no tradeoff for ammunition quantity in terms of the size or weight of the weapon.

Just curious...

 

[Trisha]

You plan and train for the worst, and then hope for the best; that's a given. My 649 .357 is always with me, everyday - hence my minimum. Here in the rocky Mountains, when dialing 911 will see an average response time of 15 minutes and up, it's common for me to have a shoulder rig with a 1911 or .45acp variant with two reloads as well as a knife, etc.

There are always trade-offs.

Life experiences and training help the individual learn, over time, what is acceptable. One local aquaintence carries a G20 in a shoulder rig with two additional reloads on his hip for a total of 75 rounds, and an ankle rig with the subcompact and a second G20 in a paddle holster locked in his POV, with its own reloads.

Between your brain, and whatever scars life awarded you for surviving (mental and physical), there's something that fits perfectly - even if it may not be someone else's cup of tea.

YMMV

 

[Defensory]

mr.72:

I agree completely with your logic. I'm not willing to bet my life and the lives of my loved ones on a minimalist approach based on simplistic averages.

It's a hard fact that home invasions (HI's) have become a fairly common form of robbery over the last couple decades or so. In just one recent year in Houston alone, there were about 450 HI's---more than one a day. HI's almost always involve more than one perp, usually two or three.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of Rambo types at firearms forums who feel so "confident" in their real or perceived shooting ability, that they honestly believe they're going to be able to take out several armed home invaders (or several armed muggers in a parking lot) with just one shot each.

However, in real life, perps don't just stand there motionless like the paper targets at the range. They're going to jump behind furniture, behind cars etc.---and they're going to be firing back.

According to a retired LEO (who spent most of his 30 years "on the streets" of a large American city) I know and have spoken with personally, the typical LEO shooting confrontation occurs at about a distance of ten feet, and the LEO's involved will MISS with about 70 to 80% of their shots.

Please remember that these are LEO's who have all received weapons training, and are required to requalify at the range at least once or twice a year.

Since the Rambos like to use averages to justify their belief that only five rounds will be sufficient in virtually any conceivable shooting confrontation, let's "do the math":

Three armed perps invade Rambo's home or ambush him in a parking lot. He has five rounds. According to extensive law enforcement experience in real life situations, he's probably going to miss with three or four of those shots in a shootout.

That leaves one or two rounds to take out three armed perps, who most likely will be packing hi-cap semi-autos, so it's reasonable to assume they'll have at least 40 or so rounds between them.

Common sense tells me that those aren't the kind of odds I'm going to bet my life and the lives of my loved ones on. I'll use a 5-round snubbie for a backup, but I'm darn sure going to have a fully loaded hi-cap semi-auto ready at all times as my primary.

 

[Sato Ord]

Minimum amount of ammo you want in your gun?

One!

You asked about minimum, not optimum!

I had a friend who had a very small, home made, smooth bore, single shot .22 magnum that he carried everywhere. It was his last ditch backup, and on the rare occasions when he couldn't even carry a small revolver concealed, it was his only carry weapon. He figured it was still better to shove that in someone's nostril and pull the trigger than be without if he needed it.

One night a guy pulled a knife on him while he was getting out of his car. He shot the guy in the face with that .22. They both lived, but having a .22 magnum plant itself in your sinus cavity is not conducive to continuing to mug someone.

Bad guy got jail time, and my friend's auto insurance paid out a settlement for the incident. It seems that since my buddy was just getting out of his car his insurance was liable. This, of course was a lot of years ago, and laws have changed. Now, in Florida, if someone is wounded or killed during the course of committing a felony they can't sue the person who shoots them.

 

[mr.72]

Right, I tend to agree. If it's worth carrying, it's worth carrying enough ammo to get the job done whatever that job might be, within the realm of reason.

It is within reason that a number of BGs greater than one is going to be present, and in that case 5 rounds is not enough.

Furthermore, there are numerous scenarios that one could anticipate that would require more than 15 rounds, or even more than twice that. I could recount a few just from my personal experience, but I can imagine many others.

 

[jad0110]

I suppose it is mostly out of convenience. It is mostly because you happen to have a 5-shot revolver that you like, so you are convinced that it is enough. But I wonder what the choice would be if there were no tradeoff for ammunition quantity in terms of the size or weight of the weapon.

Just curious...

I'll bite.

For me, I set round count pretty far down on the list in my priorities when looking for a defensive firearm. Many other factors carry greater weight (ie, fit to hand, pointability, ease of carrying, control layout, trigger quality, etc). If two choices rate equally high, except for round count, then I'd choose the gun that has the higher capacity. But such is not often the case for me.

It is within reason that a number of BGs greater than one is going to be present, and in that case 5 rounds is not enough.

Not necessarily. When the bullets start flying, the average badguy probably doesn't want to get shot either.

That leaves one or two rounds to take out three armed perps, who most likely will be packing hi-cap semi-autos, so it's reasonable to assume they'll have at least 40 or so rounds between them.

Common sense tells me that those aren't the kind of odds I'm going to bet my life and the lives of my loved ones on. I'll use a 5-round snubbie for a backup, but I'm darn sure going to have a fully loaded hi-cap semi-auto ready at all times as my primary.

With those kind of odds, I doubt what handgun you have on you is going to matter much. Just make sure its something you can shoot well. I generally perform better with revolvers and 1911s, so that's what I stick to. Long, drawn out gun fights are a rare in civilian self defense. So I carry what I can draw very quickly and is a natural pointer in my hands.

I'm not willing to bet my life and the lives of my loved ones on a minimalist approach based on simplistic averages.

the typical LEO shooting confrontation occurs at about a distance of ten feet, and the LEO's involved will MISS with about 70 to 80% of their shots.

70 to 80% is also an average. Some people (LEOs and armed citizens alike) perform much better, others much worse. So in that regard, I won't handicap myself with a gun that holds a bazillion rounds of ammo that I can't shoot well. Doing so means that in order to come out alive, I must rely on throwing enough led downrange that hopefully, a perp will sooner or later walk into a piece of it . I have yet to shoot a double stack, hi cap auto consistently as well as a J Frame or 1911.

Note that I don't knock hicaps whatsoever. As a gun nut, I'd love to own one of everything ! But when it comes down to protecting myself, I simply fall back on what works best for me.

 

[Sato Ord]

These arguments are always interesting to me.

How many people here have actually practiced going up against another person with a handgun? I do this with paint ball, and arisoft a lot. I can tell you, both sting like hell at close range.

I wonder how many of the people who would "only carry a high cap autoloader" have ever tried going toe to toe in such a situation. In our practice we've found that moving is more important than how many rounds you have available. If both the aggressor and the defender stay stationary, in nearly every scenario we've been able to come up with, both parties end up getting shot. If you move before the first shot is fired and keep moving you get about four steps and four shots before the aggressor gets the rhythm and manages to get a bullet into you.

Remember, we are mostly former military and have several former and current LEOs in our little group, so we aren't just a bunch of "mall ninjas" making noises. We have fun, but we train seriously.

As I said, it's more a matter of training. If I had to pick who would win a contest, the guy with the Sig or GLOCK up against the guy with the chief's special, my question would not be who had more rounds, but who has the best realistic training.

 

[mavracer]

It's a hard fact that home invasions (HI's) have become a fairly common form of robbery over the last couple decades or so. In just one recent year in Houston alone, there were about 450 HI's---more than one a day. HI's almost always involve more than one perp, usually two or three.

Minimum Acceptable Capacity For CCW

home invasion is a little different
because I know my 5 shot J frame has more than enough firepower to provide cover fire while I reach into the closet for tha AR