Minimum Caliber for Self-Defense

[REPOMAN]

DRGONG has it !!!!!
Shot placement is key.... FWIW I'd rather have a well placed
.22 LR wound than a .45 wound in the sholder or leg...

 

[Z71]

I carry a Walther PP .32 auto quite a bit. Yes, probably too small for some folks.

None of the handgun calibers really impress me except the .357 and .44 magnums!

I'm a hunter, and have used most of the more commen pistol calibers to do a bit of small game hunting. Handgun stopping power is pretty pitiful sometimes!

Then you have the magic hollowpoint ammunition! Never shot anyone with the stuff, but recovered at the range from the backstop, few expand much or any. That is, until you get up to the .357 mag. That round is a go getter!

True that I like my carry guns small and light, however a .357 mag could give a fellow an edge in a pistol fight.

I even bought myself a Ruger SP101 .357 to carry, but my wife confiscated it to keep at her shop! So I just carryeither a Walther .32 or a Colt Police Positive .38 Special(same as a Detective Special, except longer barrel).

I should go buy another SP101!

 

[SN13]

2.34mm Rimfire.
http://www.swissminigun.com/home.html

Smallest I could find.

Only $6000 for the gun shipped.

$10 for each round shipped to you.


Might want to choose the .22LR if you're looking for a minimum caliber though... more economical.

 

[burningsquirrels]

now let's see them make a rimfire autoloader.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Anything is better then a stick. Bullet placement is the most important part of self defense. .22 will kill.

Of course. If Oboma has his way. Even a rock will be illegal...

 

[JohnnyGrey]

I find compact wondernines to be the best choice for defense outside the home. Once the caliber is reasonably powerful (9mm, .40, .45), I don't look at shot for shot ballistics, but how much damage a gun can do before it's out of ammo and the fight ends. I shoot 9mm well and can put several rounds in the same place very quickly. Self defense is not hunting, you're not limited to one shot, so look at the potency of the round, how many rounds the gun you're considering can carry, and how fast you're capable of delivering them accurately.

I trust 17 rounds of 9mm to get me out of trouble more than I do 8 rounds of .45. Sure, if it's one attacker, 3 rounds might do the job, but if I'm being ganged up on, I take all but 2 of them down and they see me go into slidelock, I'm going to have problems.

 

[skywarp_]

9x19mm


I daily carry a Gov't model 1911. Its really not hard. I'm avg build, wear modern street clothes

I dont believe in the a 22 in your pocket is better thana 45 at home thing.

If you seriously care you will find a way to have something more than a 22.

 

[highlander 5]

22 LR bare minimum (cheap to shoot as well) 9mm Luger or 45 acp primarily because the 1 of the 2 can be found almost anywhere 2nd choices 38 spl/357 mag same reasons as above.

 

[weisse52]

Just piling on...

38 or 9mm in most cases for most people.

I am a firm believer that bullet placement is key, but to place that bullett you have to have a gun with you. IF you are willing to practice alot then maybe you can get by with less.

Like the 80 YO guy from Texas I carry a NAA mini revolver (in 22 mag) everywhere I go. Lots of times I have a full size 1911 to back it up.

First rule...have a gun.
Second rule...know how to use it.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

I like .380 acp as a minimum. Prefer .38 special or more powerful, however.

 

[springmom]

The minimum is a .22lr.

And before everybody starts whomping on me...there are any number of scenarios in which this is all you will be able to shoot. Yours truly, for instance, just got the news that I've got a torn rotator cuff in my right shoulder. :banghead: It will be awhile before I have the surgery to fix it, because something else has come up health-wise that MUST be addressed first. However, at some point, I'll have my right hand in a sling for most of my day and will be forbidden to have recoil for at least 3 months.

That'll make a .22 look pretty good. And that's not an unusual injury for active people, so it's not entirely out of the question that, even while you're young, you might have a time when a .22 is all you are allowed to shoot.

However, for your normal, usual, everyday, no-unusual-circumstances concealed carry, a .380 is a good benchmark minimum. Also, check your state laws. I know that in order to TEST for your CHL here, you have to TEST with a minimum of a .32. You do NOT have a minimum to carry, though. But I'd double check that.

Springmom

 

[sqlbullet]

Accuracy first, then speed, then power.

So, the largest caliber you can shoot double or triple taps with combat accuracy.

As your accuracy and speed skill improve you will graduate to more powerful cartridges. And you will gain your own opinion about what your personal defense weapon is chambered for.

 

[CHEVELLE427]

when the SHTF

anything will be better then a stick with a sharp rock tied to the end,

 

[Z-Michigan]

Accuracy, reliability, and ability to carry the gun are top priorities. Misses or failures to fire do no good in self defense.

Beyond that, the largest caliber that you are truly comfortable shooting and are accurate with. If this caliber is more powerful than 10mm auto, I would stop at 10mm auto. Personally, I strongly recommed 9x19mm for anyone who can shoot it, which is probably 98% of people who have any business handling a handgun. But someone who can't handle 9mm for some reason but is otherwise OK (e.g., an arthritis sufferer) is much better off with a .380 or even a .22 than with nothing, or with a gun they can only shoot once while flinching.

 

[Erik]

Another ".38 Special (revolver) or 9mm Luger (auto)" advocate. They have a reasonably chance of accomplishing the goal under a wide variety of circumstances without the sub-caliber caveats.

 

[Defensory]

Posted by Z-Michigan:
But someone who can't handle 9mm for some reason but is otherwise OK (e.g., an arthritis sufferer) is much better off with a .380 or even a .22 than with nothing, or with a gun they can only shoot once while flinching.

Judging by your above statement, I'm going to have to assume you've never fired a 9mm or .380.

There's almost no difference in felt recoil between the two.

There's also little difference, if any, in the price of comparable quality handguns chambered for those cartridges. Not to mention that .380 ammo is considerably MORE expensive than 9mm ammo.

Also, the new breed of "micro 9" type pistols being sold by companies like Kahr etc., are almost as small as .380's.

The 9mm has proven clearly superior stopping power, which considering my previous facts, makes the .380 pretty much obsolete for personal defense.

Virtually anybody who is physically able to handle a .380, can handle one of the new breed of tiny 9mms.

 

[JKimball]

A .22 is a mouse-gun. It cannot be expected to sledge down a charging 200 pound attacker. Nevertheless, alone among small caliber defense cartridges, it has a valid place as a self protection weapon.
---Massad Ayoob, In the Gravest Extreme, pg. 109

He goes on to give two reasons:
1) People are less likely to be afraid to shoot a .22. (They won't flinch, etc.)
2) Ammunition is so much cheaper, that a person can get in lots of practice with it, which is crucial for effective shooting.

Generally speaking, I don't think .22 would be on the top of anybody's list for recommended self defense calibers. But if we're talking the minimum, it can be a good option in certain cases.

 

[ragtopdog]

I would have no problem feeling safe with a .22 auto by my side. 11 shots in 3 or 4 seconds. Some people need to go out and hunt with a .22 to see what they can do.

 

[TAB]

22 lr.

 

[ugaarguy]

Judging by your above statement, I'm going to have to assume you've never fired a 9mm or .380.

There's almost no difference in felt recoil between the two...

...Virtually anybody who is physically able to handle a .380, can handle one of the new breed of tiny 9mms.

Not all .380s are tiny straight blow back designs. Pistols like the Beretta Cheetah and CZ-83 are medium size lock breech designs which are very soft shooting. I'm going to assume you've never fired one of those either.

 

[Defensory]

When gun experts like Massad Ayoob talk about a "minimum" self-defense caliber, they mean the smallest round that will RELIABLY and EFFECTIVELY end a confrontation MOST of the time.

There is no "magical round" that will stop every attacker every time. But I do not know of ANY nationally prominent firearms trainers, training facilities and defensive firearms associations that would recommend the .22LR cartridge for self-defense.

People are fooling themselves if they think a .22LR is going to reliably stop determined and/or armed aggressors, especially if they're on drugs and/or alcohol.

 

[TAB]

People are fooling themselves if they think a .22LR is going to reliably stop determined and/or armed aggressors, especially if they're on drugs and/or alcohol

people are fooling themselfs if they think any hand gun round is going to reliably stop some one.


Shot placement is what counts, not how big the hole is.

 

[ugaarguy]

There is no "magical round" that will stop every attacker every time. But I do not know of ANY nationally prominent firearms trainers, training facilities and defensive firearms associations that would recommend the .22LR cartridge for self-defense.

People are fooling themselves if they think a .22LR is going to reliably stop determined and/or armed aggressors, especially if they're on drugs and/or alcohol.

Would you rather have a handgun in .22 LR or no gun at all? The folks in the previous posts who've advocated .22LR have done so with qualifications. If injury or other physical issue limits one to a .22 LR or nothing surely the .22 LR handgun beats nothing. I don't think anyone in this thread, or even anyone on THR, would ever recommend using .22 LR as a defensive round to someone capable of effectively using a larger caliber handgun.

 

[Defensory]

I say no thanks to .380's like the wimpy Beretta Cheetah. Even people who own it admit it isn't cut out to be a primary defensive pistol:

Posted by Shane:
The main reason I bought the Cheetah was that it was so darn cute and fits my hands perfectly--the balance was very good for such a small pistol. Its NOT a front line defensive pistol, IMO, but as a backup to a larger caliber gun I think its a fine pistol.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=234557&postcount=3

Also, even slide action .380's like the Cheetah don't have all that much less felt recoil than a 9mm, because the extra several ounces of weight in the 9's helps control it.

Even with the availability of the Cheetah and CZ-83, there's still no intelligent reason to pack a .380, when one can pack a "micro 9" that's superior in virtually every regard.

 

[ugaarguy]

Also, even slide action .380's like the Cheetah don't have all that much less felt recoil than a 9mm, because the extra several ounces of weight in the 9's helps control it.

Really? Per www.berettausa.com the 84 Cheetah weighs 23.3 oz unloaded, and is 6.8" long. According to www.glock.com the Glock 19 weighs 20.99 oz unloaded, and is 6.85" long. I thought the 9mm handguns were supposed to weigh more? Have you ever fired a Cheetah?

Even with the availability of the Cheetah and CZ-83, there's still no intelligent reason to pack a .380, when one can pack a "micro 9" that's superior in virtually every regard.

Lower felt recoil for a person who isn't very recoil tolerant isn't an intelligent reason?