there is a reason the 223 is not legal to hunt whitetail deer with in many states. there HONESTLY, AND TRUTHFULLY just isnt enough power there do do a good, quick clean kill in MOST hunters hands.
dont get me wrong, i own a 223, it is a lot of fun to shoot, and my next rifle purchase will be a 223 ar-15 type (although i have not decided which one yet).
but it is not a good deer gun. the problem is the bullet is just to small, can easily be sent elsewhere INSIDE the body if it hits something substantial instead of blowing a hole through it.
i think a 270 is a fine gun for deer, even though i do not own one. you just need a bullet of sufficient size and weigh to penetrate all the way through the animal, while mushrooming to twice its original diameter, AND retaining 80% of its original weight ALL OF THE TIME, EVERY SHOT, NO MATTER WHERE IT HITS.
i am not trying to start an anti 223 thing. like i said, it is a nice, fun gun. just not for big game. the problem isnt shot placement as so many of you will state. it is when things go wrong! you hit a twig, there is a tuft of grass you didnt notice, the deer (or other animal) moves quickly, or you actually make a mitake (just be man enough to admit you do ocaisionally) and hit the shoulder instead of the lungs. there are a million of things that can go wrong to ruin the best intended shot, and hunt.
and if you are using a marginal caliber to begin with, you are going to loose the animal, or worse, wound it so it will die a long miserable death.
i admit it, i once shot a deer, with my 300 win mag. the deer dropped, then to my suprise, got up and ran about 70 yards. this had never happened before, so i was suspicios that somehow, something went wrong. after carefully studying the situation, i found a bullet hole through a 2" hunk of tree limb, that i didnt see through my scope that was between the deer and i. how i missed seeing it i will never know. but anyway, the 180 grain silvertip continued on to reach the deer. punching about a 3" hole at the entrance, and penetrating all the way through and stopping at the hide on the other side of the animal.
try doing that with a 223. it will just result in a wounded or missed animal.
as far as excessive recoil goes, i can reccomend thiese options. 1) buy some managed recoil ammunition from remington to practice with and target practice exclusively with those, OR download your own to an acceptable level. then when you shoot full power loads at an actual animal, you will be anticipating the mild recoil. when the full power one goes off, it will be no big deal, as your adrenalin will be pulsing through your veins and you will hardly even notice the difference.
2) practice, practice, practice with full loads and REALLY CONCENTRATE ON THE POINT OF AIM, AND TRIGGER PULL. you would be amazed how affective this really is. like a previous poster said, this is just basic rifle marksmanship. the gun going off should ALWAYS be a suprise.
3) have a muzzle brake installed. they make a world of difference. i just had one installed on my 45/70, mostly because i was tired of having my shoulder turn back/blue/orange. it does a great job. no more bruising, way less recoil, and for my ears, not really perceptably louder ( yes, this is a plug for the Gentry Quiet Muzzle Brake ).
i have grown up with magnums, but i honestly do not, (now in my older, more experienced years) really believe that everybody needs to run right out and buy a magnum cartridged rifle.
the 30-06 / .308 winchester are fine 30 caliber guns that will do EVERYTHING my 300 mag will do out to 400 yards. and how many shots do you really take at that range?
now western hunters, who shoot muelies, and elk, may need a magnum. but for the most part, most hunters are in the woods, not open praries.
my wife has been a great shot with her 30-30, now there is a mild recoiling gun, and being a lever gun, great fun to shoot as well. she has droped several deer with it, and one we had to chase over a mile, with a good shot.
the big advantage to a magnum is the increased hydraulic shock you get. often, i think this is the biggest reason for them. i havent killed a deer with my 45/70 yet, but i am thinking that it will carry a huge hydraulic shock with it as well.
like i said in the beginning of this thread, this is not a 223 bash, it is simply about using enough gun!
I keep wanting to ask them how long it's going to be while they zero their weapons so they can go shoot at the RIFLE range :banghead: Some of them bring girlfriends to impress (okay, I'm jealous) and I'm sure they'd love to hunt deer with their ARs to make them feel like they'd been man enough to enlist instead. Remember - it used to be the same way when M1 Carbines were under a hundred bucks and guys wanted to hunt (wound) deer with THOSE.
