minimum caliber? why?

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Just cause you can doesn't mean you should. I've wanted to ask this question since the first time I saw someone ask about .223 for deer or birdshot for intruders. I fail to see why it is such an accomplishment to kill a deer w/ a .22 lr. Sure they can drt but they could die miserably from infection. I have heard a story of a magnificent deer around these parts shot w/ a .223 (shot by someone who could could handle much much more) that was found dead months later destroyed. That could have been the deer of someones lifetime, but instead it was wasted. I think it is just irresponsible and unsportsmanlike. If we are going to take a deer why would you not want to do everything they could to make it quick. I know that shot placement is far more important. a deer shot in the leg with a .223 is just as shot in the leg with a .338. can't people be just as happy with perfect shot placement w/ a .270 as a .223?

p.s. if someome is so helplessy addicted to black guns what about a .308? not my taste anyway.
 
Back wehen I was selling bibles door to door,
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My GOD, you got sucked into that, too? Okay, off topic, but I was desperate for money to finish school in 1973, went to Nashville for a week, assigned to New Albany Indiana, nearly starved to death before giving up. Worst job decision of my life. LOL! I am not a door to door salesman, I found out. However, I do have a record of smoting dogs, not with books, though. LOL
 
.308 doesn't kick in a heavy barrel bolt hunting rifle. No need for an auto. But, then, recoil is subjective. Some folks think a .243 is too much. :rolleyes: I think the 3" 12 gauge has probably toughened me up over the years. LOL I can fire 20 rounds off the bench with a 300 mag and it's nothing to poppin' 25 rounds at ducks and geese combination in the morning with a sub 7 lb 12 gauge double. But, the sore shoulder is a good sore, reminds you of a good morning in the marsh. :D I'm converting to autoloading shotguns in my old age, though, primarily for the softer push.
 
My minimum caliber is 7mm-08 (or .44 Mag in a lever gun). These are my minimum because I like to hunt deer. When I went out to get a deer gun, I bought a deer gun! I don't hunt deer with a tiny or a huge cartridge because I don't feel the need to brag about what I killed a deer with. I hunt deer because I love to hunt, not brag.
 
Aw, michaelmcgo, relax. Look at it this way: If I'm gonna sit around and ambush some little central Texas whitetail, I might well use my .223. Or, maybe, my .243. If I'm sitting-hunting here on mule deer, I might likely use my 7mm08. Back in my walking-hunting days, I used an '06 for whitetails and mulies.

Why? Circumstance and deer size. I'm a good shot. I don't lose deer. Most are DRT or danged close to it. Sorta up-close on smaller deer, I'll happily use smaller cartridges in lighter-weight rifles. Longer shot possibility on larger deer, I go with larger cartridges and don't worry about the weight of the rifle (although my 7mm08 is a Ti).

There's nothing fixed or arbitrary about all this. It's empirical: Whatever works is good. So far, my notions have worked out quite nicely for me--for a helluva long time. :)

Art
 
Son-in-law put the box out in the trash that his Remington came in. I wasn't sure the model, but it's a M700 Varmint heavy barrel (fluted) synthetic. NICE rifle, very accurate, and very light on the shoulder even in .308. If'n ya can't shoot THAT, well, you need to examine your marksmanship skills. It's a pussycat, really. I still like my M7's lightness and compactness, just sayin'. One advantage of his gun, he gets near a couple hundred fps more out of that 26" barrel with the same load. As a stand gun on a sendero, I gotta admit it's better than the M7, but I like all around guns in all around calibers 'cause I might be in west Texas or New Mexico one month chasing desert or rocky mountain mulies, still hunting the hill country, or stand hunting on my place for hogs and deer. The .223 is probably a fine deer gun for specific situations, but I don't hunt the same way all the time or for necessarily the same animals and I don't have varmints to hunt, so there's really no place in my rack for a .22 centerfire. Other than rimfires, a .257 Roberts is my smallest caliber and I can tell ya, it's enough for anything I've ever hunted. Yeah, I hunt with handguns and have used the .357 on a few animals just to make things interesting hunting on my place from a stand and over a feeder, but I don't bother with handguns out west or for still hunting.

If all you do is 100 yard standing shots over feeders or something, great, but I ain't always in a stand or hunting a feeder and my place has more hogs than deer on it and it has a LOT of deer. I gotta be ready for either. Head shooting a hog with a .22 will normally do the job, but I'd as soon not be limited to head shots.
 
i believe if u are trying PURPOSELY to use the smallest caliber for whatever ur huntin, u dont belong in the sport.
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Is it so hard to type 'you'?

Like Art said. Empirical. A West Texas whitetail doesn't take much to kill. I've used an AR before and had no issue. DRT and that was with a 55gr PSP.

I've got some Speer 70gr semi spitzers that I'm going to load up this weekend.
 
Like Art said. Empirical. A West Texas whitetail doesn't take much to kill. I've used an AR before and had no issue. DRT and that was with a 55gr PSP.
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Depends on the range. You can see a long ways out there. I limit myself to no more than 400 yards, myself, but with a .22, I'd stick to 100, MAYBE 150 on a small doe. I'd sight the gun in for zero at 150 and shoot for the head when possible for those longish shots. However, I'd probably wind up shooting a jaw off if I didn't dope the wind right, not an option to me. The brain of a deer is not a large target. In a clean world I can do it every time at 150. But, after hiking 4 miles, climbing, and then you have to find a good rest to shoot from.

Easier to make those shots in East Texas where you are hunting 40 yards from a feeder. Here, I don't see much wrong with .22s on deer so long as you can shoot it and discipline your shots.
 
Depends on the range. You can see a long ways out there. I limit myself to no more than 400 yards, myself, but with a .22, I'd stick to 100, MAYBE 150 on a small doe. I'd sight the gun in for zero at 150 and shoot for the head when possible for those longish shots. However, I'd probably wind up shooting a jaw off if I didn't dope the wind right, not an option to me. The brain of a deer is not a large target. In a clean world I can do it every time at 150. But, after hiking 4 miles, climbing, and then you have to find a good rest to shoot from.

Easier to make those shots in East Texas where you are hunting 40 yards from a feeder. Here, I don't see much wrong with .22s on deer so long as you can shoot it and discipline your shots.
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West Texas is mostly where I've hunted, so I'm well aware of the distances. I've watched deer at more than a mile through the spotting scope.

With a good bullet like a TSX or the Speer, I'm comfortable out to 200 with .223.

That said, I don't care to lug that heavy barrelled SOB around with me, so it's usually your basic bolt gun. Been using 300 Win for the most part, but I load it to warm .30-06 levels with 180gr bullets. I'm playing around with some 200gr pills loaded on top of H1000 aiming for about 2800fps, but that's just for giggles right now. This year the .45-70 Buffalo Classic will get it's turn. I'm anxious to see the 405gr SP do its work.
 
One advantage the smaller calibers have is meat damage. With a .30-06, you can really waste a lot of meat. With a .223 or a .243 you damage a lot less meat.
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This is a totally incorrect quote.. The last deer I shot with my AR15 the worst blood shot and ruined meat than I have ever seen.

A 55 grain pill at 3200 fps is a recipe for meat jelly. I got picks to prove it if you need to see them.


A larger bullet will make a nice and smooth wound channel and go in and out. The .223 will just destroy tissue from everywhere. I don't know how to describe it. You just have to see it to believe it.
 
Mag. than they do with a .223 or .243 b/c they remeber that they have to have a great shot to harvest what they are hunting.
 
This is a totally incorrect quote.. The last deer I shot with my AR15 the worst blood shot and ruined meat than I have ever seen.

A 55 grain pill at 3200 fps is a recipe for meat jelly. I got picks to prove it if you need to see them.


A larger bullet will make a nice and smooth wound channel and go in and out. The .223 will just destroy tissue from everywhere. I don't know how to describe it. You just have to see it to believe it.
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You say these things as if they are the hard and fast rules.

These are examples from your experience. My experience tells me that a given bullet can a) pass right through and ther deer walks away, b) perform as intended, or c) blow up like a tactical nuke.

The 55 gr pill I used didn't create any meat jelly. I've had 150gr Core-lokts do all 3 of the above.
 
You say these things as if they are the hard and fast rules.
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So did the poster in which I quoted to begin with.

Also I have proof of my post. So to me it is "hard and fast" rule.
 
Only by the "Experts"

Us shooters who know how to shoot don't have a problem with it.

$$$CHACHING$$$
 
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