Why dont' people like .223 for deer?

Status
Not open for further replies.

lwsimon

Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2004
Messages
364
My first 3 deer were killed with an AR-15 in .223, and my 4th and 5th taken with a .22-250 (at longer range). Why are people biased against small caliber weapons?

I always go for the ethical kill, and do 100% headshots. I've had game wardens amazed that I can hit a deer in the head at 75 yards or so with the peep sights on my AR. But when I shot my old .270, I couldn't hit a thing.
 
a 22 centerfire is for sure nothing i would use on deer. but, if you are having succes, good on ya.

head shots are another thing i wouldn't do. i play the percentages, and take the easier shot at the heart/lung area.

22's are also illegal for deer in some states.
 
I guess it's one oif those situational things. There's a lot of difference in the degree of exact shot placement, comparing sitting in a stand vs. walking across country. Shots of 50 to 100 yards are different than shots out at 200 or 300.

I killed my first deer with a .222. Nice, cooperative doe; I centered the white spot at maybe 25 yards.

I've killed a lot of deer with a .243, but I was real picky about the shot. I'd be the same way with a hotshot .22. Picky. With a rest; head or neck shot preferred, and not too long a distance.

In my cross-country walking, I prefer my '06. If I'm a bit off on Ol' Bucky when he's in 5th gear and wide open throttle, I want to know he'll go down long enough for me to put in an anchoring shot. I just don't have faith in small bullets...

I generally plan on worst-case scenarios...

:), Art
 
lwsimon, if you can consistently shoot deer in the head with a .223 and it's legal in your state, then that's up to you. I'm better then a fair shot and I don't trust myself enough for that. I'd hate to find a deer that starved to death because someone shot its jaw off when it moved its head. It happens plenty. It's not gonna happen to me.

IMO, .243 is the minimum for white-tailed deer.
 
Geography plays a big part.

Deer in Bosque County can be 75 -100# lighter than deer in South and West TX. While I have no problem with .223 and .22-250 around these parts, I would consider it inferior for larger white tails and muleys.

I never take head shots, neck or heart/lung only.

Smoke
 
.243 is minimum for big game in CO.

I had a pronghorn hunt ruined a few years ago when somebody shot a buck in the jaw. I don't know if he was aiming for the head or not, but after the guys blazed and took off, my cousin was glassing the bucks and noticed that one had his jaw shot. We drove as close as we dared and when I got out of the truck, the buck took off. I shot him going away at about 125 yards (a shot I would normally pass up) and the bullet from my 25-06 went from stern to stem, ruining the left rear and right front quarters.

He went down and we drove over to get him, and believe it or not, HE GOT UP and took off again for about 200-300 yards. We drove closer and when I got out, he raised his head and I put one more through his skull.

So I had to tag a half ruined animal with a broken up skull. Kinda ruined my day.
 
Yes its for real. I'm a natural shot it seems, I've always been very accurate with rifles. Still need some work with a handgun though. We finally narrowed the issue with the .270 down to the ammo. Silvertips just don't shoot straight through that gun. Hollowpoints do just fine.
 
Jeff Wrote,
"lwsimon, if you can consistently shoot deer in the head with a .223 and it's legal in your state, then that's up to you. I'm better then a fair shot and I don't trust myself enough for that. I'd hate to find a deer that starved to death because someone shot its jaw off when it moved its head. It happens plenty. It's not gonna happen to me.

IMO, .243 is the minimum for white-tailed deer.


__________________
Jeff"


What he said, and I'll add that many states won't allow it.
 
Sooner or later you will miss the quick kill and then after trailing and cursing and not finding the deer for hours or days you will reconsider. Or, like Gary, you'll find some other nimrod's deer. :uhoh:
 
got to be bigger than a 22 here and im a great shot but ill pass on head shots evertime no matter what the rifle .. Course i use my 300 mag now and figure if i miss um with first shot the muzzle blast will knock them down till i can work the bolt for the second shot :)
 
I've shot a lot of deer (approaching 400), and quite a few with the .223. Even more with a .22 Hornet. And a number were taken for necropsy/studies.

The short and long of it is:
1. The .223 has a narrower wound cavity than larger diameter bullets. (The volume of a circle increases dramatically with an increase in diameter).
2. Penetration is apt to be seriously compromised if larger bones are hit.

Combine the two above and it can result in a lost deer.

I occasionally take head shots, but it is usually on undisturbed feeding deer, or one that is alerted and looking at me. I have even killed some (depredations permit) with a .22mag RF, but shot placement is hypercritical.

I killed two deer this past Sat. (opening day in GA) with a .223. (Rem mod7, w/Hornady 55gr SP over 25.5gr of RL-15. The larger, a 100lb doe took the bullet broadside through the ribs at 35yds with a ~1/2" exit wound. I over shot the heart, and hit just behind it. The deer ran as if spanked for ~40yds, then stopped, and then fell over. Took about a minute to expire thereafter. Second was a yearling spike buck I mistook for a doe. It took the bullet broadside at ~100yds broadside into the humerous of the left shoulder. The bullet fragmented on the bone and shards of bone and bullet fragments entered the chest cavity lacerating the heart. Deer bolted at the shot and ran approx. 50yds before expiring.

What was wrong with the performance? Absolutely NO blood trail, except where the deer fell. A larger deer than we have here could have possibly soaked up more than one of the .223's, and still been lost.

Thankfully, I returned on Monday with my .35Rem and killed a 125lb doe, and on Tuesday, I used a .30/30 and took a doe and a 180lb 10pt buck. With equal shot placement on the latter two, the doe probably would not have died any differently, except for a generous blood trail from the 150gr RN Corlokt. The 10pt would have been a different story......................

The buck most assuredly would have been lost because I broke both humerous bones in both shoulders, and ventilated the rib cage and nicked the heart. The .223 probably (at least the 55gr Hornady SPt.) would have failed to adequately penetrate and taken the far leg out from under him which kept him from going any further than the 90yds he made on two hind legs.

And, consider that the .30/30 itself is not considered to be a real power-house of a deer cartridge.

If you persist in using the .223, consider using either the Hornady 60gr Soft Pt.(my favorite!), or, the 63gr Sierra Semi-Pt., or the Winchester 64gr Soft Pt. In my experience, these will give you the best possible performance with the .223.

I defer to use the 60gr Noslers because they cost as much for 50 as the Winchesters in component form cost for 250!

You won't always be as lucky as you have been. The first deer took with a .223 took it 5 Remington 50gr PHP's from a Mini-14, and took a round from a .357mag revolver 2 hours later to put him away after I got permission to go onto adjacent property to get him. Meat was not edible!!! I refused to use a .22cf on deer for over 10yrs. until I started working with a co-worker on a depredation permit at a local airport who was alternatively using a .222 and a .243. Even at that, my .257 Roberts was substantially "muy grande" gun than the .243 (My .257 75gr HP @ 3,550fps vs his .243 80gr bullet at 3,200fps. The Roberts has a bit more "slap" at 350yds! The 100gr .257 never failed us! I consider it a .30/30 with the trajectory of a .270. Just about right for 100-200lb whitetails, and the single Mule deer I've taken.

Use enough gun !!!!
 
Too many bullets are designed for varmints and are too expolsive. You want a well constructed bullet like the Nosler partition or Speer Trophy Bonded.
 
bottom line

the reason the .223 and like cal. are not recomended is that not everyone who wants to hunt deer sized game with them are capable of limiting themselves to their abilities and the abilities of the firearm.
 
Those little "Weenie Deer" are sort of like shrimp, tasty...but you have to eat a lot of them to get filled up. The deer we have, a .223 would probably bounce off....heehee :D Not uncommon for us to take deer that are 300-400 lbs live weight.
 
Most of us like to hunt deer before we shoot, not after:D

In my case, I shot one Texas doe at 200 yards with a .25-06. The shot was dead on perfect behind the shoulder, taking off the top of her heart. She ran for a good 100 yards, zig zagging through the brush before piling up. She left exactly ONE spot of blood, and it took me a good half hour to find her. I later learned my bullet selection was not optimum, and my handloads weren't going as fast as I thought, but I was still pretty surprised at the near loss of the animal.

A friend used to hunt West Texas deer with a .22-250, before finally admitting he was losing too many animals, and switched to a .25-06

I will use a .25 caliber and higher on deer with premium bullets, but generally I like a .270 or larger, to ensure a good blood trail.
 
Personally, i've been stuck using 12 guage and find it rather effective on the deer that the slug encounters ;) But, i've been hankerin' to see what a 7.62x54R would do to a nice healthy sized deer... Time to find some nuisance permits to fill!
 
A better question with far fewer legitimate answers is "Why DO people like a .223 for deer?"

Cheap and easy to practice with, plus a lot of guys like the fact that the minimal recoil allows them to see exactly what the deer does at the shot. The low recoil was a reason my buddy cited for using a .22-250.

I recall that Finn Aagard's wife took some deer in central Texas with a .223. He concluded that it was okay, if you used a strong bullet. He suggested the Trophy Bonded.

FWIW, my buddy used some of my .22-250 handloads with 60 grain Hornadys, and once killed two javelina with one shot. He was mortified, thinking the loads were really hot, when in fact it was just luck and good bullet performance. :)
 
A better question with far fewer legitimate answers is "Why DO people like a .223 for deer?"

what tex_n_cal said, plus the .223 is the most popular caliber in the AR platform, and the Mini-14 which are very popular target/plinking rifles. I think there would be fewer people using .223 if 1) somebody somewhere developed a consensus on a better deer rifle type upper for the AR and 2) Ruger beefed up its presentation for the mini 30.
 
I'm developing a Blacktail deer load for my .224 Weatherby Varmintmaster. Unfortunatly it doesn't look like the 60 grain Nosler partition will stablize in the 1 in 14" twist even at 3500fps! I am waiting for 55 grain Barnes Triple Shock X bullets that should and maybe I can get another 150fps!:D
 
quote:

A better question with far fewer legitimate answers is "Why DO people like a .223 for deer?"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cheap and easy to practice with, plus a lot of guys like the fact that the minimal recoil allows them to see exactly what the deer does at the shot. The low recoil was a reason my buddy cited for using a .22-250.

Well, I use a .416 for everything over 50 pounds. It doesn't kick too badly, and it shoots about one m.o.a.
 
I've seen too many deer hunters get their trusty .30-30s and sight them in by getting the hits on a paper plate nailed to a tree at about 40yds. Then, they complain about hitting the deer but it getting away. C'mon, shot placement will most always be better than power not properly placed.

Personally, I've killed nearly a dozen deer with my AR and lost NONE of them. All were either head/neck or lung shots. Yes lung shots. None of these deer ran more than 25-30yds after being hit at distances of less than 100yds.

My furthest kill was a neck shot at 252 steps (I'm 6'2").

In all cases, I use a handloaded Hornady 60 grain V-Max over a compressed charge of Varget.

I've seen people hunt white tailed deer with .300 Winchesters and they scare me to death. I would be more afraid of these guys than I'd be worried about hunters using .223s.

Just my $0.02 worth.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top