Minnesota soldier shipped AK-47s home!!

[BUBBA74]

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Any one stop and think that the law is wrong? The above quote is OUR Constitution and it doesn't specify what an "ARM" is. We are friggin' Americans, why do we have to paint ourselves into corners. I don't see that the guy did anything wrong. That soldier risked his life, did his part for the country, snubbed his nose at this "regulation"/unconstitutional "law" and now he's in trouble.
Those idiots that have made these unconstitutional "laws" haven't done anything for this country but imposed their ignorant will against a free people and it is wrong, they are the ones that should be prosecuted :banghead:. What the h*ll is wrong with us nowadays? We can't trust ourselves? If I recall, not to long ago a full-auto Thompson sub-machine gun could be ordered through the mail. You didn't see an entire country wreck havoc upon itself because of it.
If we're going to make excuses for legitimizing laws restricting our rights under the Constitution we might as well pull out all the stops and toss the dang thing into the Atlantic Ocean! Give me a break. Dude should be given a medal and a bonus check.

Here! Here!

 

[VirgilCaine]

A guy from the base I'm assigned to here in the pacnorwest got busted with a grenade(s?) from over in afganistan I think... he got brig time... although he did smuggle them in the hold of a chartered aircraft (with 200+ people on it, I imagine) so he got off light for risking all those folks...

Now THAT was a stupid move. Grenades from a third world country are nothing to sneeze at. AK's can be unloaded, grenades can't.


Hey, could you send AK mags back to the States? THOSE are legal to import?

 

[ebd10]

We had a Navy vice admiral who got into deep kim-chee when he tried to bring a couple AKs back on a military aircraft after our little excursion to Grenada ... There have been more than a few folks who've tried stuff like since we started in Iraq, and it's not been just lower ranking enlisted personnel that have gotten nailed ...

I remember this one. He was passing them out to various congresscritters as wallhangers. He ended up getting them back to turn in to be disposed of, and having his wrist slapped. At the same time 30 or so paratroopers, marines, and Rangers went to prison for doing the exact same thing. Just goes to show, it's not what you do, it's who you blow.

 

[EmGeeGeorge]

The Navy is particulary bad about rank determining, well everything... I have a First Class at my command who was in Iraq working with the army; at the end of his tour, he was put in by the army for a bronze star... The Navy can-x'd that and gave him a joint svces medal... A chief he was with (who in all reality did and risked less, got the bronze star he was put in for) Go figure?
By the same light I've seen chiefs and heard of Master Chief's, who've gotten away with all sorts of nefarious deeds without so much as a harsh glance being cast their way... Juniors though, we'll we have a working party to gather up wood for the "burning at the stake" they oft times receive...

 

[CraigJS]

If we don't like the laws WE have to change the laws.. WE are the government. I stand by my first post!

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Now THAT was a stupid move. Grenades from a third world country are nothing to sneeze at. AK's can be unloaded, grenades can't.

So it would be okay to ship back a cannon because it came be unloaded?

Grenades can be disarmed.

Poppycock. You don't become a "BADGUY" just because you don't follow the law. While you may become a "criminal" upon conviction, good and bad is determined by the deed, not the law.

Maybe I missed something in this bizarre quotes. Just what felony convictions still keep you as a good guy?

So if breaking the law in such a manner doesn't make you a bad guy, breaking the law after being told countless times you don't get to bring war trophies home and you get caught does justify the fact you are a moron.

 

[wingnutx]

Hey, could you send AK mags back to the States? THOSE are legal to import?

I did

 

[roscoe]

Why not just send home the fire-control group? Easier to hide and not exactly clear to most what it is.

 

[Old Dog]

Amprecon says

If we're going to make excuses for legitimizing laws restricting our rights under the Constitution we might as well pull out all the stops and toss the dang thing into the Atlantic Ocean!

Oh, for cryin' out loud. The prohibition on bringing back firearms from overseas has NOTHING to do with "legitimizing laws restricting our right under the Constitution." That's gotta be one of the more ridiculous statements I've heard around here lately.

Dude should be given a medal and a bonus check.

What?! For being a moron? For knowingly violating a general regulation and lawful orders? I'm sorry, but even if one thinks a regulation is stupid, if you're in a combat zone, you cannot pick and choose what orders you're going to obey.

If someone can't follow simple regulations, I sure don't expect he's got the integrity to follow any regulations whatsoever; I wouldn't want him in my unit, and I sure as hell wouldn't want to depend on him to have my back.

 

[Spot77]

So if breaking the law in such a manner doesn't make you a bad guy, breaking the law after being told countless times you don't get to bring war trophies home and you get caught does justify the fact you are a moron.

mala en se vs. mala prohibita

"Bad" guy? Who knows?

Moron? No doubt in my mind.

 

[Spiggy]

my freind tried to bring home Camel spiders (dead and preserved) for souveniers (they knew how much I've wanted one) but on arrival, customs declared them contraban and they're probably ashes now... Or sitting on some snotty [mean words] official's desk.

So really, If you're not allowed to bring home a gross giant bug for your kids and freinds, I doubt they'll let you have a toy like the AK.

 

[Fletchette]

Well, their Commander-In-Chief has Saddam's sidearm as a souvenir, and he wasn't even over there except for a short visit.

I guess it's OK to make an exception for the King.

Yup. Bush is a hypocrite.

I seem to recall that in many previous American wars taking your enemies' weapons home was not considered a crime, but an honor.

 

[VirgilCaine]

So it would be okay to ship back a cannon because it came be unloaded?

Grenades can be disarmed.

A) Sure! What's the problem?

B) Shipping LIVE grenades, then, is stupid. I wouldn't trust something I just picked up off the ground, who knows who made it. If I was going to have it as a souvenir, I get someone from EOD to disarm it and make some kind of label for it as such.

I did

Any 30+ ones? Those would be the real prize... but paying for international shipping for 30-rounders that are like $10 state-side might be MORE expensive, now that I think about it...

 

[kfranz]

So it would be okay to ship back a cannon because it came be unloaded?

Grenades can be disarmed.



Maybe I missed something in this bizarre quotes. Just what felony convictions still keep you as a good guy?

So if breaking the law in such a manner doesn't make you a bad guy, breaking the law after being told countless times you don't get to bring war trophies home and you get caught does justify the fact you are a moron.

I know a few bad guys without felony convictions. Are they good guys because they lack a conviction? Really, all a conviction tells me is whether or not the guy was convicted. I prefer to judge the deed, not the label.

The guy in this case may well be a moron, but this alone doesn't make him a badguy.

The only difference between what this guy brought back and the AK he could have bought at the local Dunhams is a couple of parts, a drill press, and a couple of minutes.

 

[Beren]

Legal and illegal are not always the same as moral or immoral.

Murder is illegal. Murder is immoral.

Possession of an unregistered machinegun is illegal. Possession of an unregistered machinegun is not immoral.

How many here would vote to convict based on possession of an illegal machinegun in the absence of any actual harm done or threatened?

 

[AF_INT1N0]

I have a couple of problems..
1. Yes the guy deserves a trophy. Soldiers have been taking trophies for 2 mellienium (at least). Though until recently they took land, slaves, and gold. To the victor go the spoils..

2. The law against NFA weapons is unconstitutional, and inherently wrong. I as a member of the Jury would have a hard time convicting him for a voilation of NFA. Additionally I have a serious problem with the hipocracy of the administration, in that had this been a Sargeant Major, he would have gotten away with it.. A Senator would not have even had it taken away..

3. That being said you do need to limit some souviniers, Ie. possibly unstable explosives.

So I run into a situation, where on one hand the law is unjust, but for safety purposes you can 't have folks messing around with unstable high explosives..

The only solution I can think of is make a similar/better/safer product available in the free market at home so that the soldiers are not tempted by the inferior, iraqi grenades/AKs.

Also lighten up and realize that soldiers have been taking souviniers for ever and will continue to for the centuries to come.

 

[Old Dog]

Soldiers have been taking trophies for 2 mellienium (at least). Though until recently they took land, slaves, and gold. To the victor go the spoils..

Of course, some would call that "stealing." Imagine that.

The law against NFA weapons is unconstitutional, and inherently wrong.

While I wouldn't argue that, one does need to keep in mind that if one is on active duty in the U.S. armed forces, one is required to sacrifice some of the Constitutional protections civilians would expect. Read your enlistment contract.

Additionally I have a serious problem with the hipocracy of the administration, in that had this been a Sargeant Major, he would have gotten away with it

I hear this crap all the time, and I don't know how it is in the Army or the Air Force these days (although I did spend 3 years on an AF base, nice golf course and commissary), but I sure haven't seen this while working with the USMC and the USN -- I've seen command sergeant majors and command master chiefs go down hard for something an E-5 might have gotten a slap on the wrist for.

 

[eastwood44mag]

Whatever happened to the good old days with spoils of war and robbing the dead?

 

[Henry Bowman]

The law against NFA weapons is unconstitutional, and inherently wrong.

I, too, would not argue this. But, a sovereign nation does have the power to control its borders [stop laughing ], and to collect the proper duty on imported goods (be they blankets, candy, or cool NFA toys).

 

[EmGeeGeorge]

For everyone who gets caught, I wonder how many sneak something thru... I think back in the day, the lack of technology, and the inherent trust placed in servicemen prevented much of the bring-backs from being discovered... Plus, wwII for instance, saw most of those coming home packed into Liberty Ships... I don't think there was much screening going on in harbors and ports aropund the country...

 

[Langenator]

Henry's got it right, I think-

-the possession of a full auto charges are based on an unconstitutional law. Given that these are military weapons, and US v Miller was based on a finding that indicates that the NFA is unconstitutional if the weapons have a military/militia use, it should be fought all the way.

-like it or not, Congress does have the power to say what can and can't be imported. They've decided that AKs can't be imported. Therefore, those charges would seem to be legit.

-he should also be charged by the Army for Failure to Obey a Lawful Order/Regulation. Article 92, IIRC.

Why not just send home the fire-control group? Easier to hide and not exactly clear to most what it is.

That would be the smart way. Then buy yourself some flats and kits and go wild. But that assumes he knows how to pull the guts out of the rifle and which parts are important and which aren't.

 

[Henry Bowman]

My father told me of "someone" who brought back a little Colt .25 automatic pistol from post-war service in Germany. The person took a can of beans, carefully removed the paper label, and unsoldered the seam. The can was bent open and the beans were dumped out. The pistol, wrapped in a rag, was inserted and the can filled with oil. Then the seam was resoldered and the label reapplied. It had about the same weight as can can full of beans and would "slosh" if you shook it.

That little .25 is the most prized thing I inherited.

 

[wundudnee]

This is a picture of my son squatting in a pile of AKs. This was taken right after the first of the war. Notice the semi in the background, about 1/2 full of rifles. He said "Here's AKs for all my friends." And no, he didn't bring any of them back. He said the ones we already had were better.

 

[Curare]

Those speaking on behalf of the soldier--would you be in favor of him bringing home an RPG? After all, the people have the right to keep and bear arms.

 

[wundudnee]

Or an artillery shell? This is one of many bunkers they found.

Another bunker

Or maybe something a little larger?