Misfires with 223 Handloads

[FullEffect1911]

Generally speaking you will always want to full length size rifle rounds being used in semi auto rifles. This helps to chamber proper and prevent the floating firing from slam firing into the case.

I will include some links to things I think will help you out.

Lee Challenger Press (it is a perfectly adequate press) It can be mounted to a small table you can put into a closet if you wanted. Suffice it to say there are many ways to utilize this type of press.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=176078

Pulling bullets on .223 with a kinetic bullet puller is horrible, the bullet is too light and they are often crimped.

I highly recommend this if you can get over the initial cost:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=680804

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=128601

Lastly I would think a proper primer swage or ream would help you out as well. Using a drill bit may or may not get the proper depth, and I wouldn't want to drill deeper into the primer pocket.

I don't have much experience with either tool so I can't recommend anything there.

Also people here in the reloading forum are great and will help with any questions you have. Safety is the primary concern and I think I can speak for the majority that we want you to succeed with reloading.

 

[mire3212]

Wow! Great info! Thanks a million. I ordered a single stage press from midway and the dies to go with it, I'll have to postpone the collet bullet puller, though it's something I was looking at before I ordered things. Thanks!

 

[rodregier]

Lee also makes a version of the hand press that doesn't require a mount. Bit of a tussle for case resizing but it can be done.

I've used the Lee hand press for reloading for .223 - works just fine.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=650614

 

[rcmodel]

Ok so why does a neck sized case vs a full length sized case change whether I misfire?

Because they are so tight the bolt is not fully locking shut.

That prevents the hammer from hitting the firing pin.

The small dent you mentioned is just the normal dent the AR floating firing pin puts on every round when the bolt slams shut, or tries too.

If you note the bolt position when it fails to fully chamber, you can see what is happening. You might be able to finish closing it by pounding on the foreword assist.
Or you might just get the round stuck tighter then a gnats pattotie, and it won't go in, and it won't come back out!

Full Length sizing will fix it.

rc

 

[918v]

Did anyone tell you the reason your reloads aren't firing is because your bolt isn't locking all the way? You need to bump the shoulder back a bit more. Get regular dies and a hand press at the very least. Now, you can fix the rounds you have with a Redding 223 Small Base body die which you should have anyway. It's a worthwhile investment for $25. Neck-sizing for AR's is a great way to break the bolt and prematurely wear out the barrel extension.

 

[NeuseRvrRat]

if you have just about any type of table, a scrap of 2x6, and some C-clamps, you have room for a single stage.

good call on going ahead and getting one

 

[mire3212]

Did anyone tell you the reason your reloads aren't firing is because your bolt isn't locking all the way? You need to bump the shoulder back a bit more. Get regular dies and a hand press at the very least. Now, you can fix the rounds you have with a Redding 223 Small Base body die which you should have anyway. It's a worthwhile investment for $25. Neck-sizing for AR's is a great way to break the bolt and prematurely wear out the barrel extension.

Ok, so it's designed to shrink the distance from the bottom of the round to the shoulder to help make sure the round enters the barrel/extension to the correct length? How does this differ then a standard full length sizing die?

Would there exist an issue if i were to undo the rounds all ready made and then throw them in the lee full length sizer die?

Never had this much trouble with pistol calibers! Glad i found this forum for sure!. Thanks again for the help!

 

[FullEffect1911]

Never had this much trouble with pistol calibers! Glad i found this forum for sure!

I find rifle reloading to be a bit more difficult too.

Ok, so it's designed to shrink the distance from the bottom of the round to the shoulder to help make sure the round enters the barrel/extension to the correct length? How does this differ then a standard full length sizing die?

I don't use small base dies. I use a Lee full length sizing die and then make sure that my case fit into a Wilson case gauge. I haven't have any issues doing it this way. If it fits into .223 specs there shouldn't be any problems cambering.

http://www.exteriorballistics.com/reloadbasics/resize.cfm

and excerpt from that article in regards to small base dies and pump, lever and semi auto rifles:

"Sierra has worked with a large number of these types of firearms that functioned perfectly well with conventional full length dies, and suggest resorting to small base dies only if they prove to be necessary. They do work the brass more, and will usually result in reduced case life."

So it wouldn't hurt to have one available, but it's an only as necessary thing. (kinda like a bullet puller )

Would there exist an issue if i were to undo the rounds all ready made and then throw them in the lee full length sizer die?

The only issue I see would be decapping live primers. Not a good idea. I would remove the decapping pin and size them from there using an otherwise normal technique. The neck sizing shouldn't change significantly and is worth a shot to save the components.

By the way, I've found that the information in the Sierra manual to be excellent and very detailed. The reloading data is arguably a bit dated, but the reloading procedures are a good read.

 

[rcmodel]

In my experiance reloading .223, a Sm Base die is not necessary.

I use standard RCBS FL dies for use with AR-15's, Mini-14's, and a CZ-527 bolt-action.

Never needed a small base sizing die in any caliber or rifle for nearly 50 years so far.

rc

 

[mire3212]

In my experiance reloading .223, a Sm Base die is not necessary.

I use standard RCBS FL dies for use with AR-15's, Mini-14's, and a CZ-527 bolt-action.

Never needed a small base sizing die in any caliber or rifle for nearly 50 years so far.

rc

great! i'll just save up for a bullet puller thhen

 

[rcmodel]

I didn't say a Full-Length sizing die & press was not needed.

I said a Small-Base Full-Length sizing die was not needed.

rc

 

[mire3212]

I didn't say a Full-Length sizing die & press was not needed.

I said a Small-Base Full-Length sizing die was not needed.

rc

Right, i've got the press and full length sizing die en route. But knowing i don't need the small base dies means i can purchase the collet bullet puller instead, later.

 

[918v]

It's not needed, but it is desirable.

 

[mire3212]

i'll save it as a purchase for later for sure, got to have as much equipment as possible right? love building up more tools

 

[918v]

I was suggesting it as a way to salvage your loaded rounds that won't chamber.

 

[mire3212]

Ah, ya I'd rather not use it with loaded ammo honestly. I've had a primer go off before during reloading and I'd rather not risk a whole round going off :/

(though the thought did cross my mind)

 

[918v]

There is no risk as there is nothing touching the primer during the sizing process.

 

[mire3212]

There is no risk as there is nothing touching the primer during the sizing process.

Well to do that I'd need the small base resizing die correct? Is there anything else I can do with the loaded ammo to get it to fire in my AR? So far it sounds like using a small base resizing die or taking the rounds apart and full length sizing is it.

 

[steve4102]

Sorry, but you need a good manual.

 

[mire3212]

Ya. Which would you recommend. I've been eyeing the hornady manual honestly.

 

[918v]

Well to do that I'd need the small base resizing die correct? Is there anything else I can do with the loaded ammo to get it to fire in my AR? So far it sounds like using a small base resizing die or taking the rounds apart and full length sizing is it.

Not a SB resizing die, but a SB BODY die. A body die does not touch the neck. It only bumps the shoulder, so it is OK for resizing loaded rounds. If you resize a loaded round in a regular resizing die, the neck and the bullet sitting in the neck will be crushed along with the shoulder.

Or you could ger a Redding FL bushing die and resize the loaded ammo without the bushing. A bushing die is basically a body die which takes interchangable bushings to size the neck. Remove the bushing and the neck does not get sized. They cost a little more, though, but you get more for your money.

 

[FullEffect1911]

Ya. Which would you recommend. I've been eyeing the hornady manual honestly.

I will list my favorite manuals in my order of preference.

1 - Speer

2 - Hornady

3 - Lyman

4 - Sierra

The Sierra manual would rank higher if they brought out a new edition, there is a lot of good reloading information in that one.

I have a few others and I actually started with the Lee manual which was adequate. But those are what I consider the best. I never hurts to have multiple manuals.

 

[243winxb]

Its Always Best to Full Length Resize for Autos.

Factory ammo fired in your AR can be neck sized using the Lee "hammer" loader. It takes about 2 firing till the brass needs full length resizing.If you have a tight match grade chamber, this might not be possible, but works in my 5.56mm chamber. Range brass/pick-ups will not work with neck sizing only. Have you tried crimping the rounds? If the crimp is to hard the brass shoulder can buckle/bulge. This will keep the round from fully chambering also. Your new press and dies should fix your problem. Remember if you crimp (not needed IMO) don't over do it.

 

[mire3212]

Factory ammo fired in your AR can be neck sized using the Lee "hammer" loader. It takes about 2 firing till the brass needs full length resizing.If you have a tight match grade chamber, this might not be possible, but works in my 5.56mm chamber. Range brass/pick-ups will not work with neck sizing only. Have you tried crimping the rounds? If the crimp is to hard the brass shoulder can buckle/bulge. This will keep the round from fully chambering also. Your new press and dies should fix your problem. Remember if you crimp (not needed IMO) don't over do it.

I'll have to try this with one or two rounds, i've got some factory ammo that's been fire-formed to my rifle that i've been keeping separate from other brass. And I'm not crimping at this point, since the case is being neck sized, the bullet has been fitting perfectly without any wiggle or and is pretty tight in the brass.

I will list my favorite manuals in my order of preference.

1 - Speer

2 - Hornady

3 - Lyman

4 - Sierra

The Sierra manual would rank higher if they brought out a new edition, there is a lot of good reloading information in that one.

I have a few others and I actually started with the Lee manual which was adequate. But those are what I consider the best. I never hurts to have multiple manuals.

Well based on your list I'll probably pick up the Speer and Hornady Manuals and keep my eye out for a new Sierra edition!

Thanks guys!

 

[243winxb]

Manuals - If money is tight, there is plenty of data & instructions online. Hornady & RCBS have step by step loading instruction with photos. FL sizing , trimming, seating. Powder data from Alliant & Hodgdon websites are good. But you can never have to many sources of information. Good to have books at home for when these computer crash.