I was looking at switching from Laser cast to missouri bullet and the bullets i was looking at: Cowboy #4. They say cowboy action velocity. What is that? i know with a load of 7.7 gr. of titegroup out of my 20" lever action that is around 1200-1300 fps. Will they lead at this speed? Thanks.
Missouri Bullet Company Question
- Thread starter BigBore45
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ljnowell
Member
The only real way to know is to try them. I shoot the cowboy #9 at over 1300 fps regularly, no leading at all.
In a different gun it may lead horribly.
In a different gun it may lead horribly.
ljnowell
Member
Also, you can get that same bullet as an 18BHN if you order the IDP#4-XD.
I load the IDP4 in 45 acp and 45 colt.
I load the IDP4 in 45 acp and 45 colt.
Dudedog
Contributing Member
It has to do with pressure. MBC has some intersting info on thier site. There is also info on pressure/hardness in the Lee manual. I have been very happy with MBC. They offer THR members a 5% discount. If you need the code it is here in one of BDSs threads. (if you can't find it PM me)
Some of the Lee info
BHN Pressure PSI/CUP
12 17262/15536
18 25391/22852
I have used both in 45 APC with no leading issues.
For lighter loads the softer ones do seem to shoot better.
Some of the Lee info
BHN Pressure PSI/CUP
12 17262/15536
18 25391/22852
I have used both in 45 APC with no leading issues.
For lighter loads the softer ones do seem to shoot better.
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Wreck-n-Crew
Member
Get them coated and you don't have to worry about hardness 
...http://www.missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=216&category=20&secondary=&keywords=
...http://www.missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=216&category=20&secondary=&keywords=
Jesse Heywood
Member
With the coating the hardness is less of a factor. Less resistance, little leading. I think MBC simply copied the lead data for the coated bullet.
For the product descriptions, yes they appear to be copied. I've ran their coated bullets to higher velocities than regularl lead with no problems
In answer to the OPs orginal question:
Laser Cast bullets are VERY hard cast. Must be all that magic silver! I do use them in my 30-30 rifle and they work well in the Marlin micro groove.
They have a BHN of 24 BHN which is really hard. Some companies do this to try and prevent leading but hardness is not the only thing. Yes. Size matters
So their explanation of obturation is a bit different than MBC.,
MBC uses 12 BHN for Cowboy loads, (soft shooting powder puff loads so the bullet will expand at low pressure and velocity and not lead the barrel.
The 18 BHN is harder for high pressure and faster velocity.
I have asked Brad several times at MBC that this does not make sens with the230 gr Soft ball for 45 ACP. They make that in a 18 BHN which is the same as a the Magnum bullets?? I special order the 230 RN made in 12 BHN alloy as my loads are not even 800 fps, Some of the other 45 ACP bullets are the softer lead also.
It's all a way to avoid leading and sealing the barrel. The new coated bullets are the same alloy, the coating is the lube which also eliminates leading.
http://www.laser-cast.com/files/Understanding_bullet_obturation.pdf
Laser Cast bullets are VERY hard cast. Must be all that magic silver! I do use them in my 30-30 rifle and they work well in the Marlin micro groove.
They have a BHN of 24 BHN which is really hard. Some companies do this to try and prevent leading but hardness is not the only thing. Yes. Size matters
So their explanation of obturation is a bit different than MBC.,
MBC uses 12 BHN for Cowboy loads, (soft shooting powder puff loads so the bullet will expand at low pressure and velocity and not lead the barrel.
The 18 BHN is harder for high pressure and faster velocity.
I have asked Brad several times at MBC that this does not make sens with the230 gr Soft ball for 45 ACP. They make that in a 18 BHN which is the same as a the Magnum bullets?? I special order the 230 RN made in 12 BHN alloy as my loads are not even 800 fps, Some of the other 45 ACP bullets are the softer lead also.
It's all a way to avoid leading and sealing the barrel. The new coated bullets are the same alloy, the coating is the lube which also eliminates leading.
http://www.laser-cast.com/files/Understanding_bullet_obturation.pdf
ljnowell
Member
In answer to the OPs orginal question:
Laser Cast bullets are VERY hard cast. Must be all that magic silver! I do use them in my 30-30 rifle and they work well in the Marlin micro groove.
They have a BHN of 24 BHN which is really hard. Some companies do this to try and prevent leading but hardness is not the only thing. Yes. Size matters
So their explanation of obturation is a bit different than MBC.,
MBC uses 12 BHN for Cowboy loads, (soft shooting powder puff loads so the bullet will expand at low pressure and velocity and not lead the barrel.
The 18 BHN is harder for high pressure and faster velocity.
I have asked Brad several times at MBC that this does not make sens with the230 gr Soft ball for 45 ACP. They make that in a 18 BHN which is the same as a the Magnum bullets?? I special order the 230 RN made in 12 BHN alloy as my loads are not even 800 fps, Some of the other 45 ACP bullets are the softer lead also.
It's all a way to avoid leading and sealing the barrel. The new coated bullets are the same alloy, the coating is the lube which also eliminates leading.
http://www.laser-cast.com/files/Understanding_bullet_obturation.pdf
I've always wondered why they don't cast the softball at the softer alloy also.
To be honest though, as long as you have decent for the 18bhn is gun for pipsqueak loads.
I load 357 action bullets(18bhn) over 3.5gr of AA#2, which is very low pressure.
well from what i can see from laser cast says that 13,000 psi or more is fine and i load right around there, i have very little leading with them. I guess i'll order some of the 12 BHN that are coated and some 18 BHN that are lubed and try them. Thanks everyone.
They are both very good companies and have excellent bullets. I get all my lead from MBC with the exception of a box of Laser Cast for the 30-30. MBC usually has your order delivered to your door in a few days!!.
As mentioned, the coating does not change obturation.
The owner Brad, did explain to me about the 45 ACP bullets in hard alloy. He stated simply that people wanted hard cast bullets so that's what he makes. If everyone asked for softer ones he would make those. You can get them in the soft alloy (or any special order) if you buy 2 boxes of them.
I have tried samples of the coated bullets and like them but need to use up a lot of regular lubed lead bullets first!.
As mentioned, the coating does not change obturation.
The owner Brad, did explain to me about the 45 ACP bullets in hard alloy. He stated simply that people wanted hard cast bullets so that's what he makes. If everyone asked for softer ones he would make those. You can get them in the soft alloy (or any special order) if you buy 2 boxes of them.
I have tried samples of the coated bullets and like them but need to use up a lot of regular lubed lead bullets first!.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
I know not a .45 but I have shot a whole box of 124gr 9mm coated bullets from MBC. I intentionally loaded them up hot to see how tough the bullets are and they are tough. I loaded them up with a full charge of Longshot for an AV of 1202 fps and shot them in a Glock G19 with no leading at all.
I'm sure the coated .45 bullets will perform similarly at the same velocities especially since the pressures are much lower in the .45 compared to the 9mm..
ljnowell
Member
ArchAngelCD
Member.
I was shooting on an outdoor range and didn't notice any smell and didn't see any smoke.
I have shot the Bayou bullets (same technology) I can notice a slight chemical odor but no smoke to speak of. I shoot outdoors. There is much more smoke with the traditional lubed bullets. The odor is not over powering but to me it is distinct. Like burning wire, chemical kinda smell or something. It's minimal.
ljnowell
Member
I've heard that from other people also. Smoke from lube doesn't really bother me, I kinda like the smoke and smell, lol. If you can push them hard and not have adverse effects, that is very cool.
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