Mixed Headstamps & NATO in Winchester White Box 9mm

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Sorry but I just don't get this whole thing. Has anyone here ever tried to return unopened ammunition let alone a box of open ammunition? Once again everywhere I have ever been it's "All Sales Are FINAL" No returns, no exchanges, it's yours don't ask! Shoe on the other foot, who's to say this customer isn't trying to scam the shop?

Earlier this year I had a guy show up at the range with a brand new 300 Win Mag. Never been shot before. He stopped on his way to the range and bought a box of ammo and then when he got to my range found it didn't fit. He bought a box of 300 WSM by mistake. Again he was stuck with it. It's not the retailers responsibility to know what ammo you need for your gun. And again for liability reasons the store could not exchange it!
 
kmw1954 said:
Sorry but I just don't get this whole thing. Has anyone here ever tried to return unopened ammunition let alone a box of open ammunition?
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Evidently you haven’t read the last couple posts back.

It’s very common to have someone bring in unfired ammo with a trade in. Happens a lot.

We used to check ours and let the guys that worked at the store shoot it in our range
 
redneck2 said:
Evidently you haven’t read the last couple posts back.

It’s very common to have someone bring in unfired ammo with a trade in. Happens a lot.

We used to check ours and let the guys that worked at the store shoot it in our range
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Evidently you are quite wrong, have read every post.

So tell us all please, how much of that brought in with a used gun ammo gets resold? Was it sold as new/unopened? Or was it disposed of as garbage? So you are also saying you are firing unknown ammo at an open range. Sounds safe to me.

Also the brought in with trade is not the same as walking into a store and picking a box off the shelf taking it home and then a hour later bringing it back and wanting a refund.
 
I would give the LGS a chance to act on the problem, first, before spreading it around, but that is just me. We need all the LGS we can to keep open, and if you go back there, and it was an honest mistake, and they make it right, are you going to come back on this and post that? I hope so, as who among us, are perfect? Trying times, but at least, give them a chance to make it right before judging them, as wouldn't you want that same treatment, if it was you that made that error? If they throw you out the door, then you have tried to give them that chance to make a wrong, a right. Just saying. You must have trusted them alittle, as they gave you a good enough deal, that you bought a 9mm pistol from them.
 
wst38tx said:
Thanks for all the feedback, I going at this two ways: 1) Write to the approriate manufacturer contact with pictures, receipt, and explanation, and 2) Visit the store manager with pictures and questions.
The cost is not so important as the safety issue, and legal implications of retail stores selling reloads as new ammo. It's not good for our community if some reloader is doing this.
Looking at the WMA NATO stamp brass, I concur with jimmyvegas29, it is used brass with swaged out crimp. The White Box was nice new and crisp looking.
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If this was represented and sold as new and in fact reloads and and the reloader wasn't licensed this could put the FFL dealer in serious (federal) jeopardy. Fines, loss of license and etc.!

This warrants a serious discussion (Winchester, ATF, dealer) depending how much jeopardy you want the dealer to encounter!

What's important is how it was presented and what you expected! You definitely have standing if it was presented as "new" ammunition when you purchased it!

All the best,
 
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JJFitch said:
If this was sold as new and in fact reloads and and the reloader wasn't licensed this could put the FFL dealer in serious (federal) jeopardy. Fines, loss of license and etc.!
This warrants a serious discussion depending how much jeopardy you want the dealer to encounter!
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Well, if you pursue it via the law enforcement route. If this was intentional, the dealer should face some kind of jeopardy, but the buyer should be the judge of the dealer's reaction, and if the dealer's jeopardy is equal to the dealer's transgression. Keeping it private between dealer and buyer is probably the best course of action if the dealer exhibits honest remorse, makes the buyer right, and the buyer has conviction that they won't do it again.
 
wst38tx said:
I'm not new at reloading, just new to 9 sillymeter. Darn, these things are small! o_O
I've loaded lots of 308, 556, 458 SOCOM, 38 Spcl, 357, and 45 ACP.
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Yah, im new to 9mm as well, i never shot it enough and couldnt justify the savings.
 
I don't know who was in the wrong here, but it's obvious to me someone intended to sell reloads as new ammo, and they should not get away with it. It's a scam.
I'm sure it wasn't Winchester, or the store itself. If I had to guess, most likely an employee doing a swap. But, "follow the money" is the key. Who could gain from the differential?
 
Those are most likely reloads. As in I am 99% sure those are reloads. How they ended up in a new Winchester box is a mystery. Hope the store owner can help you get to the bottom of it.

Every box of Winchester white box I've purchased, the rounds were loose in the box. There was no fancy foam thingy holding the rounds. That was all 200 round bulk packs though. Maybe the 50 round boxes are different?
 
I returned to that retailer today, and standing next to the sign with big letters that said "We don't give refunds on ammo for any reason," he quickly offered a refund - I could tell he was in a hurry to get me out of there. I brought up the subjects of safety issues, etc., and reiterated that someone was passing reloads for real ammo. He mumbled about being able to get any ammo, and he wasn't surprised - they get ammo where ever they can, etc., etc. He didn't even look at the headstamps closely - he knew. He probably sold it to someone else before I pulled into my driveway.
I recognize the smell of rats. My last time in that place. I paid 19.95 (40 cents per round) for that Win WB, which isn't a bad price, but I don't shoot other people's reloads. In the last three days, my dies, bullets, and brass I had ordered came in. I have ample powder and primers. All the components (including primers and powder) figure to yield 500 rounds at 34 cents per round, which includes amortizing the cost of the dies over those 500 rounds. Not cheap but these days ain't bad. After that, I'm at 17 cents per round.
Time to move on.
 
wst38tx said:
I returned to that retailer today, and standing next to the sign with big letters that said "We don't give refunds on ammo for any reason," he quickly offered a refund - I could tell he was in a hurry to get me out of there. I brought up the subjects of safety issues, etc., and reiterated that someone was passing reloads for real ammo. He mumbled about being able to get any ammo, and he wasn't surprised - they get ammo where ever they can, etc., etc. He didn't even look at the headstamps closely - he knew. He probably sold it to someone else before I pulled into my driveway.
I recognize the smell of rats. My last time in that place. ...
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I think you're spot on. He knew all along.
And a good decision, IMO, to be done with that shop.
 
Sorry for the opposing view but screw me once and you never get a second chance.

Why should I trade in a dishonest establishment and help him make money and earn a living?

Also, a very wise man told me a log time ago that "You cannot outsmart a thief, he is better, and has much more practice at it since he does it all day...you are an amateur."

Just my 2 cents...
 
If it were local to me, and if he had other things I wanted, I'd definitely go back. OP, just don't buy ammo or opened bottles of Unique powder or ....... whatever. If it can be tampered with, avoid it.

But I've dealt with many disreputable gun dealers. I know how to inspect a firearm, for example. If a dealer gets a trade in and has it priced right, I have no problem buying from him.

But if he's offering me a BBQ sandwich for half off, origin unknown, I'll pass.
 
Jim Watson said:
Don't cut off your nose to spite your face.
If the store has a deal or even a Deal, take them up on it with precautions.
As somebody or another said, "trust, but verify."
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Sometimes it's just not worth the effort.

I'd rather pay more to somebody I know I can trust than have to watch somebody like a hawk just to save a penny or two.

About thirty years ago, I ordered pizzas from a particular chain, two weeks in a row. Both times I got sick. I haven't had their pizza since. I can't throw a rock in any direction in North East Ohio without hitting a pizza joint. Why should I give money to one of a thousand that's made me sick twice in a row? Likewise, why would I buy ammunition from a business that's already proven to be shady and when if I guess wrong one time, I could lose fingers or eyes?
 
Deanimator said:
About thirty years ago, I ordered pizzas from a particular chain, two weeks in a row. Both times I got sick.
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Simple. Don't buy pizza from the OP's gun dealer and don't eat the guns.

But there's tons of info as to how to check out a firearm. Do your homework and due diligence and grab the bargains wherever they appear. Each to his own.
 
SunnySlopes said:
Simple. Don't buy pizza from the OP's gun dealer and don't eat the guns.

But there's tons of info as to how to check out a firearm. Do your homework and due diligence and grab the bargains wherever they appear. Each to his own.
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What do I win if I guess wrong?

I've been studying firearms since I was in the fifth grade. Some of the most knowledgeable people in firearms are very open that some forgeries are EXTREMELY hard to detect. I'm a gun collector, not a detective specializing in fraud.

Again, why should I waste time on grifters when I can deal with honest people? I dislike simply being in the presence of liars and thieves. I certainly don't want to give them my money.
 
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