More ammo for the anits
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1911austin
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sorry. they changed the link after my post. Here is the text.
A 12-year-old San Antonio boy died Saturday afternoon south of Giddings when he was struck on the top of the head by the recoil of a Ruger .454 gun he was firing. The boy, identified by the Lee County Sheriff’s Office as Marcus Wall, was pronounced dead at the scene by Justice of the Peace Paul Fischer.
Sheriff’s Deputy Rodney Meyer stated that the victim and his father, Marc Wall, were with friends dove hunting on the Zoch place off County Road 233. Deputy Meyer reported that when the hunters took a break for lunch, they began shooting a variety of guns owned within the group. The Ruger .454 Casull was purportedly owned by Joe Ramsey of Austin.
According to the Sheriff’s report, when Marcus asked to shoot the Ruger, Ramsey told the young boy the gun was too large for him to shoot. However, allegedly it was later “ OK’ed for him [Marcus] to shoot the gunâ€. The report did not identify who gave permission for the child to shoot, though Ramsey stood by the boy when he fired.
From the Sheriff’s account of the incident, Marcus was instructed how to hold and shoot the gun. “Mr. Ramsey assisted the victim [when taking aim] by holding his hand above the victim’s [hands] for the recoil,†explained Deputy Meyer.
When the gun was fired, the gun recoiled upward, hitting Marcus in the head causing head trauma. The gun’s owner, Ramsey, received injury to his fingers but was not transported for medical attention.
The Sheriff’s Office 911 dispatch received two calls reporting the incident, though only the second caller could identify their location. Deputy Mike York advised dispatch that he was in the area and had been flagged down and directed to the location. Upon arrival at the scene, Deputy York radioed to dispatch to cancel the call for an ambulance and to send out a Justice of the Peace.
The recoil velocity of the Ruger .454 has been noted for its strength for some time. In a May 2001 article in Shooting Times, author Dick Metcalf reported that “...when the .454 Casull version of the Super Redhawk was introduced in 1999, Ruger spokesmen candidly acknowledged they did not expect the new chambering to be shot a lot for casual plinking or for steel-target competition. Its recoil was simply too severe.â€
Deputy Meyer stated that the case is still under investigation.
A 12-year-old San Antonio boy died Saturday afternoon south of Giddings when he was struck on the top of the head by the recoil of a Ruger .454 gun he was firing. The boy, identified by the Lee County Sheriff’s Office as Marcus Wall, was pronounced dead at the scene by Justice of the Peace Paul Fischer.
Sheriff’s Deputy Rodney Meyer stated that the victim and his father, Marc Wall, were with friends dove hunting on the Zoch place off County Road 233. Deputy Meyer reported that when the hunters took a break for lunch, they began shooting a variety of guns owned within the group. The Ruger .454 Casull was purportedly owned by Joe Ramsey of Austin.
According to the Sheriff’s report, when Marcus asked to shoot the Ruger, Ramsey told the young boy the gun was too large for him to shoot. However, allegedly it was later “ OK’ed for him [Marcus] to shoot the gunâ€. The report did not identify who gave permission for the child to shoot, though Ramsey stood by the boy when he fired.
From the Sheriff’s account of the incident, Marcus was instructed how to hold and shoot the gun. “Mr. Ramsey assisted the victim [when taking aim] by holding his hand above the victim’s [hands] for the recoil,†explained Deputy Meyer.
When the gun was fired, the gun recoiled upward, hitting Marcus in the head causing head trauma. The gun’s owner, Ramsey, received injury to his fingers but was not transported for medical attention.
The Sheriff’s Office 911 dispatch received two calls reporting the incident, though only the second caller could identify their location. Deputy Mike York advised dispatch that he was in the area and had been flagged down and directed to the location. Upon arrival at the scene, Deputy York radioed to dispatch to cancel the call for an ambulance and to send out a Justice of the Peace.
The recoil velocity of the Ruger .454 has been noted for its strength for some time. In a May 2001 article in Shooting Times, author Dick Metcalf reported that “...when the .454 Casull version of the Super Redhawk was introduced in 1999, Ruger spokesmen candidly acknowledged they did not expect the new chambering to be shot a lot for casual plinking or for steel-target competition. Its recoil was simply too severe.â€
Deputy Meyer stated that the case is still under investigation.
Henry Bowman
Senior Member
That is sad. Sometimes safety goes beyond the "4 Rules."
10 Ring Tao
Member
Tragic, unfortunate accident. However, still a fluke, and anyone saying this is a gun issue is simply short sighted and grasping for straws to support a previous bias.
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
I think the cause of death ought to be listed as "lack of adult supervision."
jnojr
Member
What's the possibility something else happened to this kid, and everyone else hit on the "Uhhh... uhhh... he was firing a really big gun, and it hit him in the head!" excuse?
I just don't buy the story.
I just don't buy the story.
1911austin
Member
"I think the cause of death ought to be listed as "lack of adult supervision."
My condolences go to out to this family. I agree that this accident could have been avoided with proper adult supervision. I also think that Ruger is in no way responsible for this young man’s death. However, I would not be surprised to see Ruger facing a very expensive lawsuit. I can already see liberals claming the Ruger is at fault for producing a revolver with such “insane†power.
My condolences go to out to this family. I agree that this accident could have been avoided with proper adult supervision. I also think that Ruger is in no way responsible for this young man’s death. However, I would not be surprised to see Ruger facing a very expensive lawsuit. I can already see liberals claming the Ruger is at fault for producing a revolver with such “insane†power.
ClonaKilty
Member
My heart goes out to his family.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Recoil
Scott said:
Something sure seems fishy about that story to me. I just don't understand the physics of how recoil could generate enough energy to kill someone.
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I have to agree with that statement. Even though the Casull kicks like a Missouri River mule, I don't see that the arc of travel could retain enough
force to cause a catastrophic closed-head injury. The impulse is over too quickly...and in order to cause a serious blunt trauma, it would have had to impact the boys head at the onset of the recoil...In other words, he would almost have to have his head positioned within a couple of inches from the barrel.
Of course...nothing is absolute, and freak accidents do happen.
I can see how a small boy could be struck by a Casull revolver in full recoil after firing a shot with a child's hand strength...even one as heavy as the big Ruger...but I'd tend to think that the distance traveled would have allowed most of the force to dissipate. Maybe the boy had a soft spot in his skull where the bones hadn't grown together yet...
Color me skeptical on this one...tragic though it is.
Scott said:
Something sure seems fishy about that story to me. I just don't understand the physics of how recoil could generate enough energy to kill someone.
_______________
I have to agree with that statement. Even though the Casull kicks like a Missouri River mule, I don't see that the arc of travel could retain enough
force to cause a catastrophic closed-head injury. The impulse is over too quickly...and in order to cause a serious blunt trauma, it would have had to impact the boys head at the onset of the recoil...In other words, he would almost have to have his head positioned within a couple of inches from the barrel.
Of course...nothing is absolute, and freak accidents do happen.
I can see how a small boy could be struck by a Casull revolver in full recoil after firing a shot with a child's hand strength...even one as heavy as the big Ruger...but I'd tend to think that the distance traveled would have allowed most of the force to dissipate. Maybe the boy had a soft spot in his skull where the bones hadn't grown together yet...
Color me skeptical on this one...tragic though it is.
TamThompson
Member
I agree with the physics just not working out, unless he was holding it REAL close to his face, or something.
And who the heck lets a 12-year-old kid fire a .454 Casull, anyway???
Heck, I'm a heavy-duty, super-strong ex-powerlifter woman (benched 240 lbs.), and after 3 shots with my buddy's .454, I had to conclude that that was just too much gun for me. (At the time, I weighted 174 lbs of mostly muscle.)
And who the heck lets a 12-year-old kid fire a .454 Casull, anyway???
Heck, I'm a heavy-duty, super-strong ex-powerlifter woman (benched 240 lbs.), and after 3 shots with my buddy's .454, I had to conclude that that was just too much gun for me. (At the time, I weighted 174 lbs of mostly muscle.)
FPrice
Member
I first posted something about this after hearing someone discuss being at this incident on Dr Laura Schlessinger's show.
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=100538
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=100538
jefnvk
Member
How much bigger is a .454 than a .44? When I was 7 or 8, I shot a .44 w/o any problems.
I do agree that something else as amiss here. Whether it be an underdeveloped skull, or something else completely different, I just can't accept that the recoil killed him.
Recoil ALONE probably didn't kill him;
Blunt-force trauma COULD. Read the story:
"When the gun was fired, the gun recoiled upward, hitting Marcus in the head causing head trauma."
If the hammer hit his forehead, there's a very concentrated point of impact. If the impact caused a clot, and that clot broke loose, it would cause a stroke.
Freak accident? Probably. Careless parent? Probably.
Impossible? Nope. Tragedy? Most assuredly.
Years ago, a father near here took his child to a local golf course, where everyone went sledding. He put his child on his back, for protection from bumps, etc., and went into the sand trap - a nice, soft bowl with no trees or other obstacles to hit. A very safe choice of locations.
The sled stopped; the child didn't. It went forward over dad, into the bank and snapped its neck. Bang - dead on the spot.
Less foreseeable than this poor kid being killed by a recoiling pistol and just as tragic.
Try explaining EITHER death to the child's mother............
Blunt-force trauma COULD. Read the story:
"When the gun was fired, the gun recoiled upward, hitting Marcus in the head causing head trauma."
If the hammer hit his forehead, there's a very concentrated point of impact. If the impact caused a clot, and that clot broke loose, it would cause a stroke.
Freak accident? Probably. Careless parent? Probably.
Impossible? Nope. Tragedy? Most assuredly.
Years ago, a father near here took his child to a local golf course, where everyone went sledding. He put his child on his back, for protection from bumps, etc., and went into the sand trap - a nice, soft bowl with no trees or other obstacles to hit. A very safe choice of locations.
The sled stopped; the child didn't. It went forward over dad, into the bank and snapped its neck. Bang - dead on the spot.
Less foreseeable than this poor kid being killed by a recoiling pistol and just as tragic.
Try explaining EITHER death to the child's mother............
pinblaster
Member
First let me say I've never fired a .454 Casull but everything I've read about it says the recoil is extreme and that the recoil of a .44Mag. is not even close to the recoil of a .454 Casull . IMO a 12 year old should not be shooting a .454 Casull .
ZeroX
Member
Whatever happened to starting a kid off with a nice .22lr rifle?
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