More for Buds?

[MotorCraft]

FFL Transfer Fees

$25 Transfer Fee per Firearm
$35 Transfer Fee per Firearm from Bud's Guns
$10 Transfer Fee for members

http://www.tedsrange.com/range-rates---ffl-transfer-fees.html

 

[cat_IT_guy]

Interesting, I'll be curious to see if anyone can explain why. Maybe just trying to discourage people from purchasing from "the walmart of gun stores" (large volume online retailer that can essentially drive down prices - and profits - for LGS).... OR maybe they do something that actually makes it more work...

 

[rcmodel]

More likly they have had a bad experiance with Bud's guns more then once, and don't want to deal with it.

Just guessing though.

Why don't you just ask them and get the real reason though?

rc

 

[Impureclient]

Ted and Bud aren't friends.

 

[MotorCraft]

No reason to call, I won’t be using them.

 

[McAngus]

I seen some FFLs refusing to accept shipment from Buds. Not sure why. I actually only heard great things about buds(from consumers).

 

[CLP]

I think it's the volume of business they do which concerns LGS owners. They may view those transfers as lost sales. But that's just speculation. The big LGS in Birmingham have high transfer fees in general, or a high fee if the gun you're transferring is stocked, but I don't know any around here that target Buds specifically though it's not the first time I've heard that. I use a pawn shop for my transfers, he charges 15$ flat and likes Buds because they each have FFL licenses already exchanged.

 

[BigBL87]

I think CLP is on the right track. I've ordered one gun from Bud's, didn't have any issues with them (had issues with the gun that weren't their fault and the manufacturer [Savage] made it right). I talked to my FFL before I bought it to see if she could come close to the price, and she said that what I could get it from Bud's for was what she would have to pay for it herself and encouraged me to order it from Bud's and she would do the transfer. She does $25 for anything under $400, and $40 for anything that costs over $400. I'd prefer to buy locally, but at a certain point it just becomes too good of a deal to pass up.

 

[EchoM70]

I've heard of a few LGS refusing to take transfer from buds, claiming it's the Walmart of gunshops and driving them out of business. And while this may be true it's honestly just business. If you can't compete within the open market you can't survive, find your market advantage and leverage it. Buds is just leveraging their power. To stay relevant local shops have to find a niche to exploit that buds can't or doesn't.

I think a good business model for a LGS in today's market is in accessories, reloading, and ammo, etc... Don't carry any new gun inventory only used and be a front for transfers from places like Buds.

 

[Kynoch]

My FFL who only deals in very old, very expensive, used firearms will not receive from Bud's.

 

[Kynoch]

Imagine if say automobiles or washing machines had the same restrictions as firearms.

Imagine calling a local car dealer or appliance store and asking about them receiving a car or appliance from a huge, Internet-based dealer. Do you think they might respond with something like "C'mon in and take a look at what we have in our showroom. If you want something different, we'll be happy to order it. We won't however receive cars or washers from our competitors."

 

[BigBL87]

I've heard of a few LGS refusing to take transfer from buds, claiming it's the Walmart of gunshops and driving them out of business. And while this may be true it's honestly just business. If you can't compete within the open market you can't survive, find your market advantage and leverage it. Buds is just leveraging their power. To stay relevant local shops have to find a niche to exploit that buds can't or doesn't.

I think a good business model for a LGS in today's market is in accessories, reloading, and ammo, etc... Don't carry any new gun inventory only used and be a front for transfers from places like Buds.

I think you hit the nail on the head. One caveat I'd add is you actually need to sell used guns at used gun prices. When I went to buy my first gun just about every used gun I looked at, I could get it for around the same price new. Been the same way with every purchase since, I'd gladly buy used but there's no reason to with the LGSs around here.

Also, I'd go nuts if a store around here had a decently priced large selection of the calibers I shoot. I've had to go online for ammo as well because it's still cheaper to buy online even with shipping included. The one exception at least at the moment is 9mm, which is actually reasonable at most places around here. Wal-Mart, Rural King, MC Sports, and Farm & Fleet are what I have around here, and with the occasional exception their prices and selection leave a lot to be desired, although Rural King is getting better with their selection and are by far the best of the bunch. Wal-Mart used to be decent but just recently pared down their ammo selection from one HUGE full sized glass cabinet to just the area under their tiny selection of guns. Filled it with knives instead, told them I wouldn't be buying ammo there anymore since it didn't seem to matter much to them.

 

[dusty14u]

The FFL I use loves Buds. He owns a pawn shop and doesn't want to carry a large stock of guns. He charges $20 and will work with you on multiples. The LGS has gone to him and told him he needs to raise his fee. This particular LGS charges $75 for transfers and all of his guns are listed at MSRP or higher. My FFL does a very brisk business, not sure why though.

 

[SleazyRider]

My local FFL would not accept a transfer from SOG (Southern Ohio Gun) because "they are selling at wholesale prices." A short time later, he would not accept a transfer from Bud's either. I'm always happy to pay a few bucks more from a brick-and-mortar store, but he simply didn't have what I wanted or was he interested in ordering it.

So I found a new FFL and a new friend in the firearms business, who is happy to accept transfers from either. His business has flourished largely because he has adapted to Internet. Darwin, by the way, postulated that most adaptable of the species survived, not neccessarily the strongest.

 

[Owen]

I have an FFL, Bud's generally sells to the consumer at about what I can buy them for, and doesn't charge sales tax. Great for the consumer, terrible for a Local Gun Store.

I'm in a different situation than a gunstore, because I don't rely on selling guns to make my living.

However, let's run through the numbers:

I have a customer that is looking for an XDM .45 with Night Sights, Item XDM94545BTHC

If he buys it from Bud's he pays $667 to Bud's and $15 to me, no sales tax. Price out the door is $682.

I have a 10% markup. That markup pays for covering my the interest on the credit card I use to order the gun, the time involved for ordering, the hassle of some times holding on to a gun for months waiting for the customer to pick it up, etc.

My price for that same gun is $638. I pay $25 shipping on orders with handguns. (i'm small enough that I usually only order one gun at a time). I apply my markup to $663 (my cost) and come out to $729.30. I apply sales tax, 7% for Indiana, and the out the door price ends up being $780.35.

When a customer buy's through Bud's I lose $51. With my $15 transfer fee, I've lost 75% of the profit on that gun. If your civic minded, the state of Indiana lost another $51.

So I can't say I blame LGS for a higher transfer fee for stuff coming from Bud's. Being in a position where you absolutely can't compete on price, but are still a necessary part of the transaction smells like an opportunity to get some lost income back on the transfer fee.

In fact, now that I've actually done the math out, I'm changing my transfer pricing structure.

 

[oneounceload]

Folks are legally required to submit the equal of the sales tax (commonly called a use tax), on all interstate purchases. As of now, the gov't has a hard time enforcing it, but with modern technology, it won't be long

 

[Owen]

Amazon already does it but it appears to be at some discounted rate.

 

[mgkdrgn]

I seen some FFLs refusing to accept shipment from Buds. Not sure why. I actually only heard great things about buds(from consumers).

Because Buds, due to high volume, razor thing margins, and using "drop shipping", charges less for guns that most LGS's can buy them for. Add to that THEY don't have to collect the local sales tax the LGS does and there is no way to compete.

Buds can operate on those razor thing margins because they don't actually have to touch, inventory, store, do paperwork on, or put at risk any money to purchase the "inventory" they have for sale. They never actually "have" what they sell since they drop ship.

Your LGS does not have that luxury, and must recover those costs via margin on sales.

 

[MErl]

Pawn shop in town has a very similar sign with higher numbers. Instead of members line they have "Firearm received with no shipper information in box Additional $50."

Pawn shops don't have that low margin on new gun excuse as they deal almost entirely in used. That's really where a LGS has to expect to make any money (on firearms at least).

 

[dogtown tom]

cat_IT_guy Interesting, I'll be curious to see if anyone can explain why.

Because the LGS can't match Bud's selection and prices.

rcmodel More likly they have had a bad experiance with Bud's guns more then once, and don't want to deal with it.

Not remotely likely.
Bud's is by FAR the easiest, most efficient internet retailer that I receive transfers from. It ain't rocket science to include a packing slip on the outside of the box with the transferees name, but it makes the transfer process quicker and easier on the receiving dealer. With Bud's I've never had to ask for the customers name, contact info or scour the internet.

You would be amazed how many guns arrive with MY NAME listed as the buyer on the invoice.:banghead:

EchoM70 I've heard of a few LGS refusing to take transfer from buds, claiming it's the Walmart of gunshops and driving them out of business....

Any gun store driven out of business by Bud's or WalMart wasn't much of a business to begin with. If your gun store business model is to price firearms at X% above cost or at MSRP then you will fail.

dusty14u The FFL I use loves Buds. He owns a pawn shop and doesn't want to carry a large stock of guns. He charges $20 and will work with you on multiples. The LGS has gone to him and told him he needs to raise his fee.

As do I.......and I've never bought a single firearm from Bud's.
Instead of asking me to raise my transfer fees two LGS's refer people to me when they want a transfer. If someone calls me wanting a gun today? I refer them to one of those LGS's.

mgkdrgn .......Because Buds, due to high volume, razor thing margins, and using "drop shipping"....... They never actually "have" what they sell since they drop ship.

Less than 5% of the firearms I receive from Bud's are drop shipped.

It's a logistics model every internet dealer should adopt.

 

[Jason_W]

I'm still wondering if a sort of transfers only model for a gun shop would work. Not keeping a new gun inventory at all would be a money saver and all used firearms could be sold on consignment.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I would just go elsewhere. One of my dealer friends loves Bud's. His theory is that he's getting 25 bucks 10 minutes easy work. He figures a guy receiving a gun may want ammo, a holster, case, or whatever else related. He also say a transfer in just puts another gun in the local area that he may trade for later.

 

[Damon555]

I would just go elsewhere. One of my dealer friends loves Bud's. His theory is that he's getting 25 bucks 10 minutes easy work. He figures a guy receiving a gun may want ammo, a holster, case, or whatever else related. He also say a transfer in just puts another gun in the local area that he may trade for later.

This is exactly the way it is for my FFL.....$25 for 10-15 minutes of work is easy money

 

[Kynoch]

Because Buds, due to high volume, razor thing margins, and using "drop shipping", charges less for guns that most LGS's can buy them for. Add to that THEY don't have to collect the local sales tax the LGS does and there is no way to compete.

Buds can operate on those razor thing margins because they don't actually have to touch, inventory, store, do paperwork on, or put at risk any money to purchase the "inventory" they have for sale. They never actually "have" what they sell since they drop ship.

Your LGS does not have that luxury, and must recover those costs via margin on sales.

"Drop shipping?" By whom, the actual manufacturers? That I doubt. I would also be interested to learn that Bud's is buying from a distributor. If anything (in a legal sense) they are their own distributors?

 

[Willie Sutton]

"I've heard of a few LGS refusing to take transfer from buds, claiming it's the Walmart of gunshops and driving them out of business."

Those shops are driving themselves out of business.



Darwin Rules: Adapt, Move, or Die.

FFL's who do not adapt will die... assuming that they do not move to a new paradigm of business practice. The sophistication of buyers is increasing, and their knowlage of what models are available, and at what price, causes them to not accept substitutes like they did previously. This mimics what I have business experiencwe with at the retail level, and that's scuba diving gear. In the 80's when I ran my store, divers came in and basically bought what I had in stock. Nowadays divers want VERY specific items and it's not likely that many stores have that exact item in stock. Not only that, mail order prices are always going to be lower than brick and morter. PLUS, there's no FFL barrier to getting dive gear thru the mail. So what do the "new success stories" in retail diving make money from? Training, support, and service. You can't mail order air fills, and you can't mail order classes or dive sites. They sell air, small items that are needed *today*, repairs, and local access to social activities, and organized dive opportunities.

Pass that paradigm to the LGS and you get a business model that consists of accepting transfers at a fair price with a smile, a good selection of accessories at a fair price, a range to shoot on, organized shooting activities, support of a local shooting club, CCW classes and training, pistol rentals on the range, and all of the support that goes into making shooting a matter of SHOOTING and not just buying a rifle or pistol and taking it home. Add to that a reasonable inventory of new and used guns and you have a winner.

The niche that the LGS can profitably enter into is the sale of medium priced accessories that might cost more per item than the same item bought mail order, but with the difference in price being outweighed by both instant gratification and the lack of the cost of added shipping for mail order.


Those shops that "get it" will thrive. Those that do not will fail.


Pretty simple.


Willie

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