More for Buds?

[Willie Sutton]

We have kitchen table FFLs here in CA. One that I have done business with charges $40/gun which is just fine. I can't see how it would even be worth someone's time (to meet or invite someone over) to do it for $10.00/gun unless it was a favor.


I think here it's a matter of the old guys enjoying a cup of coffee and conversation with buyers, as seen from the viewpoint of an old man with a license and a logbook, and to keep enough transfers flowing thru the license to keep the BATFE happy regarding activity. But who knows... for $10 each I'm happy and the old man gets to see some cool guns pass thru his kitchen.


Willie

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[dogtown tom]

Kynoch

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogtown tom:
Distributors do not sell direct to the public, dealers do.
While Bud's may sell more than some small distributors, they are nowhere close to the sales at RSR, Sport South and the larger distributors.

How would you know?

Common sense and an understanding of the firearms industry.
Try walking in to RSR, Lipseys, Bill Hicks or Sports South and buy a gun......ain't gonna happen. I doubt they even have 4473's.

How many Bud's transfers have you done this week? Fifteen for me. Two were drop shipped from Bill Hicks. If Bud's was a "distributor" why would they use a competitor?

If Bud's is a distributor let me know where I can sign up to buy guns at wholesale cost. Distributors sell guns at wholesale to dealers. While Bud's has a couple of guns discounted for their Preferred Dealers (I'm one).....it isn't anything to get excited about and is limited to less than half a dozen guns.

In more and more cases, the distributor tier has been completely eliminated.

Really?
Name one firearms distributor that has gone out of business or been "completely eliminated" in the last ten years.

Glock, S&W, Ruger and other top 10 manufacturers require dealers to use a distributor.

Bud's claims 1,000 orders a day (from a video on their website) That's ORDERS, not necessarily GUNS.
How many firearms a week do you think WalMart, Cabelas, Bass Pro, Gander Mtn. in the country sell at retail each week? They aren't buying from Bud's, they are getting guns from the exact same distributors Bud's and I do.

Your understanding of what a firearm distributor is and does doesn't match reality.

Kynoch I know as a policy, Wal*Mart refuses to deal with distributors across the board. I wonder if that's true with guns as well? To a large degree, the distributor tier exists as a liability buffer for manufacturers.

Next time you are in a WalMart (that is licensed to sell firearms) ask to see the gun catalogs under the desk. You'll see the same distributor catalogs I have.

 

[Zach S]

I would just go elsewhere. One of my dealer friends loves Bud's. His theory is that he's getting 25 bucks 10 minutes easy work. He figures a guy receiving a gun may want ammo, a holster, case, or whatever else related. He also say a transfer in just puts another gun in the local area that he may trade for later.

I heard an FFL here say something similar, before Buds was on the scene.

With a few strokes of a pen, he could transfer two Glocks and make about fifty bucks. Or he could spend about $450 to buy one Glock, and make 50 bucks when it sells...

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

Anyone who thinks it's only 10 minutes work to transfer firearms for someone else has never looked at it through the eyes of an FFL spending days and sometimes weeks addressing "Compliance Checks" with the ATF.

For my part - no transfers at all, ever again, that the firearm didn't come from me. I'm always amazed at folk willing to do transfers for minimal amounts.

I made a point of clocking every minute devoted to the transfer of a firearm for a friend. It came from a major, well mentioned national outfit and it still took a grand total of something like an hour an 10 minutes total.

What I can remember of the attention required:

Initial write up
Contact with the sender
Sending of signed FFL
Confirming shipping prior to shipment
Receipt of item
Logged to book
Contact with buyer
Transfer paperwork
"Hold delay"
Recheck status twice
Recontact buyer upon approval
Write up and log out of firearm

Any time spent addressing this one if required during following compliance checks

All this time is not spent on my own customers.

Another issue which came up way too often was getting caught between a buyer dissatisfied with the item and the shipper and your stuck as custodian while it gets sorted. Meanwhile EVERYONE demands that you drop everything for them when they get around to moving on the transaction.

Nope, fellas willing to do outside transfers always surprise me.

One epic transfer in particular ended up taking exactly 184 days and drove me absolutely batcrap crazy. Another National Chain behind that one.

 

[bikerdoc]

I work a P/T retirement job at the lgs. Very high volume store plus internet sales
Boss loves transfers and consignments and at 25 bucks a pop we are the cheapest in the area. We have a dedicted transfer clerk and she is great. Been doing it for 8 yrs and she has passed every complience check.

 

[donjr5]

Ive found Bud's easy to work with. Customer's name and phone number is on the box. My thought is "if I. Can't have the sale, at least I can get $25 out of the deal"

 

[texasgun]

I've ordered a dozen guns with Buds and they are top notch.

If a dealer refuses transfers from Buds (never met anyone who did though) - their loss. PLENTY of dealers in my area who do. Most of them have reasonable transfer fees of $20ish with discounts for CHL holders.

Cannot beat the selection and prices of buds - and $20 for a 10min transfer is good money. Plus I always pick up a box of ammo or some accessories while being there UNLESS it's crazy marked up (and by that I mean attempting to sell a cleaning kit going for $12 on amazon at $25 or so...)

 

[jhb]

My lgs only get mad if it's a gun they stock and I order from buds. Course no one round here comes even close to buds or any Internet dealers pricing. Luckily they got plenty of first time buyers to hose down at 625 bucks + for a glock 17.

If it's anything that isn't the usual suspects that buyers want.....they are happy to collect their transfer fees for about 10 minutes worth of me filling out paperwork and them entering it into the system.

Good thing there is a huge amount of ffl holders round here. One for about any niche needed.

 

[FireInCairo]

An FFL fee is essentially a labor fee, no? $25 dollars for about 15 minutes of time is a good money-maker. My guess is that those who charge more can afford to, not the other way around. If their time is worth more than that, that's fine enough. Just go to a different FFL.

 

[Agsalaska]

It is a senseless decision and an unwinnable(is that a word) battle against online retail. All they are doing is opening up opportunities for other people to come in, undercut them, and steal even more business. I find it somewhat comical.

Adapt or die. Business owners that learn to adapt to changes are far more successful in the long term than those that try to resist it.

In the end, anyone who is trying this will ultimately fail.

 

[Agsalaska]

I work a P/T retirement job at the lgs. Very high volume store plus internet sales
Boss loves transfers and consignments and at 25 bucks a pop we are the cheapest in the area. We have a dedicted transfer clerk and she is great. Been doing it for 8 yrs and she has passed every complience check.

And I would imagine you acquire a lot of business from other FFLs who pull stunts like overcharge or not accepting Buds. And I bet the owner eats it up.

 

[Kynoch]

I work a P/T retirement job at the lgs. Very high volume store plus internet sales
Boss loves transfers and consignments and at 25 bucks a pop we are the cheapest in the area. We have a dedicated transfer clerk and she is great. Been doing it for 8 yrs and she has passed every compliance check.

That would be a good deal around here. It's also 60-250% more than the $10-15.00 some claim they pay at pawn shops.

 

[Kynoch]

It is a senseless decision and an unwinnable(is that a word) battle against online retail. All they are doing is opening up opportunities for other people to come in, undercut them, and steal even more business. I find it somewhat comical.

Adapt or die. Business owners that learn to adapt to changes are far more successful in the long term than those that try to resist it.

In the end, anyone who is trying this will ultimately fail.

Maybe, maybe not. Not everyone is a Wal*Mart person.

The FFL I use only sells used guns. His shop is like an H&H gun room. While his focus might be classic Rigbys, Colts and Winchesters, I've also seen a Marlin 60 in his cases.

He charges $50.00 to receive guns and (very quietly) he won't receive from Bud's. The reason why? One too many people came into his shop waving a printout from Bud's under his nose demanding he meet/beat Bud's pricing.

There's absolutely no reason for him to lower his FFL charge, nor does he need to receive from Bud's.

 

[Cee Zee]

One of my favorite LGS is also in KY and not all that far from Buds. They try very hard to compete with Buds on prices although they generally can't match the price at Buds. But they more than make up for it with excellent service. So I've bought a lot of stuff including guns, a safe, and lots of ammo from that gun shop. But they do transfers from Buds guns. They wouldn't want to make their customers mad by not doing it. BTW I'm talking about Borders Sporting Goods in Ashland KY. They have done very well by me over the years. And I do not have a financial interest in that business BTW. Also don't expect great deals over the net. They aren't geared for that.

 

[GoWolfpack]

We all know that Walmart is not the best thing for our community and small shops. I go out of my way to not shop at Walmart for that reason.

[snip]

I always have bought my guns at the lowest price available, period.

If you ever need to show someone examples of irony...

 

[Pyzon]

claiming it's the Walmart of gunshops and driving them out of business

What will drive every business out of business is not having a good or service available to customers at a price that is acceptable to the customer. Maybe they cannot compete with Buds on price, but when they refuse to do transfers or punish potential customer for dealing with Buds, guess where those customers will go for things like ammo ?

You guessed it. WalMart.

But the really cool thing about living in America is we are still free to be idiots, no matter which side of the counter we stand on.

 

[MachIVshooter]

If you ever need to show someone examples of irony...

Haha.


As a business owner who kind of has to deal with online competition, I can relate. Of course, in auto repair, parts mark-up is not the whole story as it is in retail. But I digress.....

Now, I'm small time with low overhead, so my parts mark-up is minimal anyway-15% on hard parts, 5% on fluids. Basically just covers my credit card fees and shop costs, and what I sell the parts at typically matches the walk-in retail price. Anyway, internet auto parts sales are also huge, and no local store can compete. It's a little different with cars than guns, as waiting 3-5 days for a part is not an option much of the time, but there are still LOTS of cases where people save a good bit on internet parts. Sometimes I even suggest that they go that route, but with a caveat..........

When I buy parts locally under my wholesale account, the distributor is on the hook for whatever period of warranty that part carries. And not only do they cover the defective part, but they also end up paying out on a labor claim for me, should I choose to file one. With this assurance, I can offer my customers a full warranty.

However, if a customer supplies their own parts-online order or otherwise-a defective part is their problem, not mine. If they wanna do battle with the distributor about labor costs, that's their prerogative. But if the part they supplied fails and they want me to replace it again, they will pay full boat labor twice and have to supply the replacement part up front, deal with getting their money back later.

Now, there are a lot of differences between the business models of an auto repair facility and a gun shop, but the service aspect can be compared. Buy your parts online, I will offer no support for a defective part. Likewise, if you buy your gun online, do not expect the local FFL to be there if you need anything. Conversely, buy your parts through me, have peace of mind that any problem with the repair is covered. Similarly, buy your gun through the LGS and, unless they are complete pricks, they'll help you troubleshoot it and/or send it back to the manufacturer (which they can do for you a lot cheaper than you can on your own if it's a handgun) if there's a problem.

In the end, much of the decision should come down to your service expectations.

 

[Agsalaska]

Maybe, maybe not. Not everyone is a Wal*Mart person.

The FFL I use only sells used guns. His shop is like an H&H gun room. While his focus might be classic Rigbys, Colts and Winchesters, I've also seen a Marlin 60 in his cases.

He charges $50.00 to receive guns and (very quietly) he won't receive from Bud's. The reason why? One too many people came into his shop waving a printout from Bud's under his nose demanding he meet/beat Bud's pricing.

There's absolutely no reason for him to lower his FFL charge, nor does he need to receive from Bud's.

He is the exception and not the rule. He is a boutique and may be able to delay the inevitable longer than most. But for the other 99% of gun shops out there it is still a bad decision(it probably is for this guy too)

 

[Agsalaska]

What will drive every business out of business is not having a good or service available to customers at a price that is acceptable to the customer. Maybe they cannot compete with Buds on price, but when they refuse to do transfers or punish potential customer for dealing with Buds, guess where those customers will go for things like ammo ?

You guessed it. WalMart.

But the really cool thing about living in America is we are still free to be idiots, no matter which side of the counter we stand on.

Bingo

 

[waterhouse]

As dogtown tom mentioned, Bud's is very easy to deal with in terms of transfers. They put a sheet on the outside of the box with the buyer's name listed, and when you open the sheet you get the make, model, and serial number of the gun with the buyer's contact info. They are also efficient in their packing and don't used shredded newspaper or styrofoam peanuts or anything else that requires cleanup.

I wish all sellers did the same. Some include no paperwork at all and use the UPS hub they shipped from as the return address.

 

[Kynoch]

He is the exception and not the rule. He is a boutique and may be able to delay the inevitable longer than most. But for the other 99% of gun shops out there it is still a bad decision(it probably is for this guy too)

Nothing "boutique" about his operation. He has about 2K guns in stock at any one time. He displays at the big gun shows (Reno, etc.) He too sells on-line, Mostly Rigby's, H&H's and Purdey's.

You're simply wrong that it's a "bad decision" for him not to receive from Bud's.

 

[Agsalaska]

Nothing "boutique" about his operation. He has about 2K guns in stock at any one time. He displays at the big gun shows (Reno, etc.) He too sells on-line, Mostly Rigby's, H&H's and Purdey's.

You're simply wrong that it's a "bad decision" for him not to receive from Bud's.

Maybe I should have used a different word or given a definition. By boutique I meant that he is not a normal industry model. Which by your description he absolutely is not.

And you can think whatever you want but I am 100% right in saying that as a general rule battling the online retail space using tactics that have been suggested on this thread and in this OP is a losing strategy. It may work for a select few but the vast majority who try it are just showing their ignorance.

 

[texasgun]

a dealer charging $50 for a 10min transfer from buds most likely also grossly overprices their normal merchandise. If you fear online competition (or any competition) that much .... there's probably a reason for that.

And by charging $50 for an easy transfer (10min paperwork, no inventory needs to be held, EASY $) ... you are not only going to lose that part of my business but the ammo and small parts (holsters, cleaning kits) business as well...

 

[Hurryin' Hoosier]

FFL Transfer Fees



http://www.tedsrange.com/range-rates---ffl-transfer-fees.html

The LGS with whom I always deal on transfers won't even accept guns from Bud's any more. Said they've had too many problems with them.

 

[dogtown tom]

Hurryin' Hoosier: The LGS with whom I always deal on transfers won't even accept guns from Bud's any more. Said they've had too many problems with them.

In six years I can count the number of "problems" from Bud's on one finger.....they shipped a better gun than the customer ordered.

They are without a doubt the easiest transfers any dealer will ever do.

It would not surprise me that your LGS has had many problems with Bud's pricing and selection.