George P
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Ever buy a used car from a dealer? You're paying tax again.
More Gunbroker fees... taxes
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George P
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Exactly, and the only reason they are making companies collect that now is because of the explosion of internet sales. before the internet when things were ordered from catalogs, the money involved was minuscule and not worth trying to enforce. Now the amounts are millions and millions and states are strapped for cash.
LightninST
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As you have said the no tax party is over !
NuShootr
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Indeed I have, but if you trade in a car at a dealership, you get that tax money back. And it shouldn't be that way either. Requiring that in internet sales is a whole other level. You are suggesting that because it is done on used cars, it is justified. And it's not. It's double dipping any way you look at it.
RetiredUSNChief
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A better analogy than a used car (which has some tax quirks to it) would simply be any other brick and mortar business which sells used anything.
Used book stores, used firearms at gun shops, thrift shops, Goodwill stores, etc. ALL charge a sales tax on used items being sold.
Used book stores, used firearms at gun shops, thrift shops, Goodwill stores, etc. ALL charge a sales tax on used items being sold.
George P
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Yep my LGS has a gun on consignment (so it isn't even theirs) and if I want it, I will have to pay sales tax
I don’t know about any other state but here in Nebraska you pay sales tax on any car you license, you also pay a “property” tax on it every year. You pay sales tax on every sale, though you can transfer ownership between entities owned by the same person, I.e. from a Corp. to an LLC or from either of them to yourself personally, though you have to show proof that it’s you and your Corp. or LLC. Face to face private transactions or sales from out of state you still pay sales tax on the purchase price or a listed taxable value if the taxable value is higher. On a trade you pay sales tax on the trade difference regardless of whether it’s a dealer or Joe next door. Property tax is refundable if you turn in the plates, registration, and bill of sale as long as it is not in the last quarter of your tag due year. If you trade, the remaining tax on your trade gets credited to your new vehicle. They got it figured out. You can buy a new car one day, pay all the sales and property tax and move to another state and get a refund of ZERO! New state of residence gives you 30 days to ante up on their tax scheme.
The old saying is absolutely true: “The only absolutes in life are taxes and death!”
The tax on firearms, archery equipment, and ammunition is a Federal tax, Pittman-Robertson. It goes to fund wildlife preservation and related projects. It’s paid once, been in place since I think it is the ‘30s. Sales tax is just that, Sales tax, it is a State one or a local entity tax. Some items are exempt here some ag production equipment and supplies and raw food products, those that are not ready for consumption as purchased. Some medical items. Otherwise, YOU PAY!
Guns, ammo, and all associated items are taxable, even if you are a dealer with a tax exempt certificate and number. If you use products you bought wholesale for retail taxable sale for yourself you are obligated to pay the sales tax on it too. I had a customer who got into big buck trouble because they didn’t do that. Really big bucks! Interestingly, later timeline, many products they didn’t pay tax on were made exempt. Had to produce paperwork, pay back tax, penalty, and interest on it all!
GOTCHA!
BP
The old saying is absolutely true: “The only absolutes in life are taxes and death!”
The tax on firearms, archery equipment, and ammunition is a Federal tax, Pittman-Robertson. It goes to fund wildlife preservation and related projects. It’s paid once, been in place since I think it is the ‘30s. Sales tax is just that, Sales tax, it is a State one or a local entity tax. Some items are exempt here some ag production equipment and supplies and raw food products, those that are not ready for consumption as purchased. Some medical items. Otherwise, YOU PAY!
Guns, ammo, and all associated items are taxable, even if you are a dealer with a tax exempt certificate and number. If you use products you bought wholesale for retail taxable sale for yourself you are obligated to pay the sales tax on it too. I had a customer who got into big buck trouble because they didn’t do that. Really big bucks! Interestingly, later timeline, many products they didn’t pay tax on were made exempt. Had to produce paperwork, pay back tax, penalty, and interest on it all!
GOTCHA!
BP
CoalTrain49
Member
When I transfer thru my FFL he collects the sales tax just like the car dealer and every other sale that transpires where sales tax is supposed to be collected. Every transfer here legally requires an FFL and BC. Gotcha. The state will have their revenue one way or the other just as surly as one day you will be pushing up daisies.
I don't mind paying my taxes. What I do mind is people with millions of dollars, not paying their taxes.
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NuShootr
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There are ways for you to shelter your money and avoid paying certain taxes if you are smart about it. Especially if you are a business owner. "People with millions of dollars, not paying their taxes" is the reason they have millions of dollars. They are savvy with the tax laws and know how to use them to their advantage. Blame the game, not the player.
RetiredUSNChief
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The key is whether or not it's a "business" and whether or not it's being sold at a gain or a loss. You don't, for example, have to pay taxes for garage/yard sales.
A consignment shop is clearly a business intended to make money. People who have garage/yard sales aren't...they're just looking at unloading a bunch of "junk" and to make a few bucks doing it instead of just hauling it all to the dump.
For example, most garage/yard sale items are sold at a loss compared to their original purchase price. Often a huge loss. So there are no capital gains concerns. And the vast majority of people having garage/yard sales only have maybe a handful any given year. Often with years separating them. So it's not looked at as a "business".
State/local laws may have more guidance on this. I remember a few years ago when I was in Kings Bay, GA for engineering support, the subject came up and the local ordinances where we were looking had a limit of three such sales per year. This is where you can run afoul of tax issues...when it can be viewed as a "business".
George P
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People with millions pay more than anyone else AND at a higher rate; how is that fair? If you and a millionaire both go to the gun store and buy the same gun, you both pay the same amount for tax; but the millionaire is paying a lot more than you in income tax.
Luckily here in FL transfer do not incur the collection of sales tax, since the dealer did not sell the item.
jar
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I think it's fantastic. Hopefully all online sales will soon get taxed at the state and even local level.
OP
OP
WestKentucky
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I don’t know that I would be excited about it but it would at least be fair. The main point being that everything is done openly and fairly as opposed to what this currently is. 8 or 10 states are subject to taxes through Gunbroker at this time. Regardless of the letter of the law saying every Tom Dick and Harry has to call up the state and send them a few bucks here and there (which everybody knew would never happen when they wrote that law to begin with) now there is an unfair bias against those few states and favoring other states. If they are going to impose state sales tax then why stagger the implementation? Why not just do it for everybody all at once and it be fair. I won the auction that made me aware of the tax on Gunbroker and I don’t know how to feel about it. I was the only bidder so I don’t feel bad about it, but my $300 bid would have put my cousin who lives in Kentucky at a financial disadvantage because he would have had to pay an extra $18 for the same item. Sales tax is sales tax and I get that different states charge different amounts for tax but there is a dirty and sneaky feeling to this.
I know we have several GB sellers here and I am curious to know how clearly it has been communicated to sellers, because as a buyer I feel like it was not communicated clearly. Gunbroker left it up to the sellers to put it in their listings so rather than communicate it, they just passed the buck.
CoalTrain49
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Just to be clear I support the tax on internet firearm sales. If one lives in a state with taxes on such things from a LGS then why not internet sales. That would help a local business compete. OT but I support a federal flat tax.
NuShootr
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Why not on internet sales? Mostly because you generally are buying product from a different state when buying online. Also, internet tax in no way helps local businesses at all. The tax is the tax is the tax. And generally, internet prices are far lower than a Mom and Pop B&M shop can afford to sell product at. Yes, you pay less tax on an item if the price is less. Sales tax doesn't help a business prosper at all. If anything, businesses in states with no sales tax (like Delaware) tend to do better, because people will travel there to avoid the taxation in their own state. Living in Southern New Jersey, many people buying big ticket items will go the the same store in DE to purchase. Other than cars and firearms.
And unless the NJ tax code is drastically different than the majority of States that have sales and use tax, they are legally bound to report and remit the tax not paid on purchases made elsewhere. In fact, I guess it isn't different: From the NJ Dept of Taxes "When taxable items or services are purchased from a seller that does not collect New Jersey Sales Tax, the customer owes Use Tax. Use Tax is charged at the same rate as Sales Tax and is calculated on the price paid, including delivery charges, for all items or services that are brought into and used in New Jersey."
So that a mechanism that allowed you to easily avoid the tax that you are legally bound to pay would be shut down should be no surprise to anyone. Taxation is not the problem: If you choose to spend the money, you must pay your bills. Spending is the problem.
NuShootr
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Taxation is most certainly a problem. I could go into a long tirade about why, but not only would that breech the rules of this site, I'm sure most people can figure it out on their own.
A "Use Tax"? Sounds a lot like the song "Taxman" by The Beatles. Yep, the government will find a way to tax just about anything, won't they? Where does that go on my tax return? (yes, I'm being sarcastic)
FFGColorado
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Retail places don't pay taxes on goods received from the manufacturer or distributor.
buck460XVR
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This discussion is about sales tax, not income tax. Tax law exemptions for businesses are to promote business and thus create more taxes by wages and sales. This discussion is about sales tax on firearms, something that has been done almost forever. Sales tax is how our states, counties and is some instances, municipalities create their revenue to operate.No revenue, no operate. If and when they do not collect sales tax, their budget does not go down, so they must create revenue somewhere else. Maybe property taxes or state/local income taxes. Use taxes like permits and user fees go up. The theory behind sales taxes is items taxed are not essentials like food, clothing, medical expenses and most home sales. The idea is, folks with more expendable income spend more, and thus pay more sales tax. With the paper trail we leave behind today by paying with plastic and records kept by online sellers, state and county governments could very well track the sale of items we didn't claim on our income taxes to our door. They then could charge us interest on that tax we lied about and charge us with fraud and failure to pay taxes since we knowingly lied on out tax form when we signed it. There was a lag in tax laws between the quick changeover from brick and mortar to online sales. Like most things in life, things change. Hopefully, folks enjoyed the free ride while it lasted. Taxes are one thing that will never change, not in our form of government. Don't like the sales tax on guns, don't buy guns from a dealer that needs to collect it.
NuShootr
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I was replying to the comment that people who make millions don't pay their taxes. I assumed that meant income tax, because as you pointed out, sales tax is virtually impossible to avoid.
BlueHeelerFl
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Years ago NYC was sending people to monitor shopping malls in NJ to document people buying big ticket items to avoid the higher taxes
Commader47
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Yes, I noticed this horrific "tax". What bothers me most is that person to person sales should not be taxed. There are ways around it; at least for the time being. I made a purchase from an individual on GB a few months ago. We came to an agreement and I did not pay him through GB. GB gets their advertising fees from the seller, but if you pay with money order, or electronic transfer to the individual then you can avoid taxes. A lot of the commercial enterprises just charge taxes that are easiest, and not fair. For example, in Georgia, each county has a different sales tax. You should only be charged the tax in your county. Since a vendor in Colorado probably has no way of knowing what my tax should be, they just charge the highest GA rate. Which is highway robbery.
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