More reason to save your brass....

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Rem700SD

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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,182170,00.html

Study: World May Run Out of Copper
Friday, January 20, 2006
By LiveScience Staff


If all nations were to use the same services enjoyed in developed nations, even the full extraction of metals from the Earth's crust and extensive recycling may not be enough to meet metal demands in the future, according to a new study.

To investigate the environmental and social consequences of metal depletion, researchers looked at metal stocks thought to exist in the Earth, metal in use by people today and how much is lost in landfills.

Using copper stocks in North America as a starting point, the researchers tracked the evolution of copper mining, use and loss during the 20th century.

They then combined this information with other data to estimate what the global demand for copper and other metals would be if all nations were fully developed and using modern technologies.

According to the study, all of the copper in ore, plus all of the copper currently in use, would be required to bring the entire world to the level of the developed nations for power transmission, construction and other services and products that depend on the metal.

The study, led by Thomas Graedel of Yale University, was detailed in the Jan. 17 issue of the journal for the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

For the entire globe, the researchers estimate that 26 percent of extractable copper in the Earth's crust is now lost in non-recycled wastes. For zinc, that number is 19 percent.

These metals are not at risk of immediate depletion, however, because supplies are still large enough to meet demands and mines have become more efficient at extracting these ores.

But scarce metals, such as platinum, face depletion risks this century because of the lack of suitable substitutes in such devices as catalytic converters and hydrogen fuel cells.

The researchers also found that for many metals, the average rate of usage per person continues to rise. As a result, the report says, even the more plentiful metals may face similar depletion risks in the future.
 
How hard would it be to reclaim metals from landfills, though? My guess is "not very".
 
Francisco d'Anconia was unavailable for comment.

Yeah, but John Galt will happily lambast us for 4 hours worth of monologue.:neener:

+1 to landfills. The guys who own these in the future are going to be very happy men. Between methane rights and mineral rights, they will have a lot going for them.

Good for them.
 
Rem700SD said:
According to the study, all of the copper in ore, plus all of the copper currently in use, would be required to bring the entire world to the level of the developed nations for power transmission, construction and other services and products that depend on the metal.

Who said that we have to bring all of the world's nations to that level again??
 
If the cost went up for copper, we would all use steel case or there would be some other option. Caseless ammo has been tried. I am sure someone could come up with a hard polymer that would hold up long enough to be ejected.
 
Rem700SD said:
"Francisco d'Anconia was unavailable for comment"
I give up, who is this guy?

You're seeing referfences to Ayn Rand's sometimes under-appreciated book _Atlas Shrugged_. It is a post-WWII dystopia showing the end result of the welfare-state mentality and incompetent whiners whose matras are:
1. Give it to me because I NEED it. (As in, earning and deserving are irrelevant.)
2. IT'S NOT MY FAULT!!!!

IIRC, d'Anconia was a copper magnate who dropped off the face of the earth, as far as the "regular' world goes, to pursue his free-market utopia in a technologically hidden valley in the Colorado mountains. John Galt was the organizer of the drop-out-of-society crew.

My estimation of John Galt's rant was 3 hours verbal--but I never looked that closely at it. It *did* go on for page after page after page...with mostly excellent to good points and exhaustive development of ideas and surprisingly little repetition....IIRC.
 
When commodities prices are very high it shouldn't amaze you that more of it is found. Oil is a perfect example. Right now the technology to extract oil results in the extraction of only about 50% of a known deposit before moving on to the next deposit. When the price of oil is sustained above $70/bbl the expensive new technologies will be developed to get out maybe 60% of a deposit.

The oil sands areas in Canada are another good example. It's very difficult to extract and process. Only recent higher oil prices made it profitable to develop those areas.
 
My estimation of John Galt's rant was 3 hours verbal--but I never looked that closely at it. It *did* go on for page after page after page...with mostly excellent to good points and exhaustive development of ideas and surprisingly little repetition....IIRC.

I seem to recall that the speech was about 55 pages or so long. I skipped it, on account of the fact that I had pretty much gotten the point of the novel up until then, and really didn't need a refresher.

Wikipedia entry on Francisco d'Anconia.

His speech on money is one of the highlights of the book.
 
I remember about 6 years ago, I hauled 1300 pounds of #2 steel in 3 trips to the recycling center. I got $13 for it. I had a little 10"x10" box of old brass pipe fittings that was around $27. The $13 went for gas...

If they offered more $, more people might be tempted to recycle...
 
Why do you think there is a resurgence of interest in getting to the moon? Give it 25-30 years and you'll see a convoy of kiloton ingots of iron heading our way from extraterrestrial mines.
 
So, lessee... since it ain't happened yet, it can't ever happen ,cause everybody knows that resources are infinite. And even if the gist of a prediction is correct, if it don't happen on the exact date scheduled, it ain't happening. So Erhlich was dead wrong. And George Orwell too, cause 1984 didnt happen till 2004. or maybe 2014. Get this, folks- the planet and it's resources ARE finite. Tomorrow, the day after tomorrow , or in 200 years, the resources will run out. Sooner or later, the increasing supply of humans and the decreasing supply of everything else will come to a head. And if you are over 40 years old, I would wager you have seen for yourself a discernable decrease in the quality of your life due to population pressure. Want to talk about illegal immigration? Where exactly do I ride my dirt bike anymore, or hunt? How come all the valley land is filled with box stores and warehouses? Is the traffic just like it always was?
 
Thats humans for you.

Tokugawa--No, it isn't like it uster be. And guess what--it never was, either. Back in the day, they didn't have cures for any forms of cancer; if you got polio you were doomed to wear an iron lung for the rest of your life. Earlier, you could plan on having all your teeth fall out by the time you were 60, IF you ever got to 60. Back in cowboy times, on the frontier, a simple infected cut was almost a death sentence. And so on. We always look back through a rosy glow, and forward through an ominous red cloud.

I have adopted the attitude that these are the good old days. Get used to 'em. (And that'll be true tomorrow, too.)

Re: Humans depleting everything: Suggest you read Robert A. Heinlein's book Starship Troopers. While the movie was good, and faithful to the book as movies go, they necessarily left out a LOT of good stuff. It's a heck of a good read just as a good read, but it states a philosophical position regarding how people continually expand their horizons, and those of the human race, which I found very interesting to say the least. We humans are a rapacious bunch. Always have been. Always will be. At least as long as we're tough enough to stave off the wave of the more-rapacious coming over the hill.
 
Is running out of a resource an issue if it we develop a way to get along without it? It's not like the earth will explode if we run out of copper (or oil etc...) We'll be fine, humans are quite ingenious at finding alternate ways to do stuff when it comes to life, comforts and profits.
 
Although it's only one type of metal, I once heard that a mountain range in Western Australia apparently has enough iron to supply the worlds needs for the next two hundred or so years....
 
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