More Tasering Action

[cassandrasdaddy]

i smell bs

the witness was driving by in 15 seconds he would cover 1/4 mile. how much of what happened did he see?during the 4 seconds when he was within 100 yards of what happened?
nice try but i hope he didn't make a sworn statement and if he stretched it like i think he did i hope they charge him

 

[Powderman]

Against my better judgement, I will attempt to discuss this.

Let's take a look.

The majority of the population are law abiding people.

We'd sure be in trouble if they weren't, wouldn't we?

When you treat people with a little common courtesy, you'll get it back unless they are a genuine pill.

Who said I didn't? In close to 10 years of police work, I have gotten into hands-on situations (meaning times when force beyond a simple guiding touch was employed, as in a fight) exactly THREE times. The rest of the time, for each person I have taken into custody, a simple conversation did the job.

As far as him slapping the officers hands away, I'll agree with you. I'm going to sort that out in a courtroom. Going toe to toe with the police will get you hurt, possibly dead. Even if you are in the right.

Now, how can a person who is about to be arrested be in the right by resisting arrest? If I tell a person, "I'm placing you under arrest for xxxxx. Turn around and place your hands behind your back." and they either (a) refuse, (b) jerk their hands away, or (c) actively push my hands away, then what do you want me to do? Give them a time out and an ice cream cone, and say, "That was a poor choice. Let me outline the alternatives to see if we can reach an understanding?"

I said it before, and I'll say it again: Once I (or any other police officer) has developed probable cause and has informed a suspect that they are under arrest, their ONLY options are to submit peacefully to lawful arrest, or be subdued for the purpose of placing them in restraints and transporting them to jail. Period. And I (and any other officer) will use the minimum force necessary to make it happen. How much force is used depends ENTIRELY on the person being arrested. In short, I have a lot of options as an arresting officer. The suspect does NOT.

You don't know me or where I've been.

So why don't you tell us where you've been that makes you qualified to be a critic of police officers? Are you now or have you ever been commissioned as a law enforcement officer? Have you ever been an MP, AP, SP, CID, MPI, NIS, or other profession where you have arrest powers?

Anyone can make that statement, and forgive me for being blunt, but it's usually uttered by someone who has exactly ZERO experience in the field they are commenting on. If this is not the case, then please take no offense at this. Don't, however, be a "chairborne ranger". State your experience, please.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

let me snitch on myself

i was a drunk a short mouthy drunk . (my apologies if anyone here had to put up with me or someone like me) As a result i have been arrested a lot. By a lot i mean wearing those cute bracelets more than 50 times.a most remarkable thing. i was never tasered. and i only got stupid while being arrested once. cost me a headache and three broken fingers.Now i've seeen plenty of other guys get real stupid while getting arrested and never could understand letting ego and false pride drive ya like that.I've been wrongfully arrested and the wheels of justice eventually spit me out undamaged.

As some folks have pointed out the place to argue is in court not on the side of the road. i've also noticed that almost always the person who is failing decision making 101 has had a few adult beverages. And sometimes it affects their abilty to make good decisions. A lot of the ones who weren't high had other issues that resulted in them getting to live on "A Floor"
If i should ever start being a drunk again and go back to doing life onn the installment plan i hope i don't get stupid but if i do being tasered might be preferable to getting clouted with a billy club.
'

oh yea also wanna apologise if any of the cops on here hada deal with me. And i hope y'll understand when i say i don't miss meeting ya'll all the time

 

[ilbob]

I said it before, and I'll say it again: Once I (or any other police officer) has developed probable cause and has informed a suspect that they are under arrest, their ONLY options are to submit peacefully to lawful arrest, or be subdued for the purpose of placing them in restraints and transporting them to jail. Period. And I (and any other officer) will use the minimum force necessary to make it happen. How much force is used depends ENTIRELY on the person being arrested. In short, I have a lot of options as an arresting officer. The suspect does NOT.

Just out of curiousity, what would be an approporiate penalty for a LEO who arrests someone who has not committed a crime at all? And the cop arrested the person anyway, say just cause he had a bad day.

 

[ilbob]

So why don't you tell us where you've been that makes you qualified to be a critic of police officers? Are you now or have you ever been commissioned as a law enforcement officer? Have you ever been an MP, AP, SP, CID, MPI, NIS, or other profession where you have arrest powers?

Anyone can make that statement, and forgive me for being blunt, but it's usually uttered by someone who has exactly ZERO experience in the field they are commenting on. If this is not the case, then please take no offense at this. Don't, however, be a "chairborne ranger". State your experience, please.

No wonder there is such widespread appreciation for LE in this country.

Let me rephrase what has just been said. "Its OK if we beat the crap out of anyone we want, Tase them, or whatever we want to to cause we the cops and you aren't, and you don't even have the right to criticize us for our misconduct".

 

[Powderman]

Just out of curiousity, what would be an approporiate penalty for a LEO who arrests someone who has not committed a crime at all? And the cop arrested the person anyway, say just cause he had a bad day.

In the State of Washington, the officer would be subject to the following:

Unlawful Imprisonment (RCW 9A.40.040) - C Felony.
Perjury (9A.72.010) - B Felony

There would also be Departmental charges forthcoming- malfeasance, misfeasance, abuse of authority, intimidation, etc.

Plus, the granddaddy of these charges can be looming in the background:

RCW 9A.40.020
Kidnapping in the first degree.

"(1) A person is guilty of kidnapping in the first degree if he intentionally abducts another person with intent:...

..."(d) To inflict extreme mental distress on him or a third person..."

Kidnapping in the first degree is a class A felony.


Are there cops out there that abuse their authority? Of course.

But this one doesn't.

And, I have mentioned in in other threads: there is NOTHING that a good cop hates more than a bullying, lying lawbreaker who wears a badge.

 

[1911 guy]

We agree on this.

And, I have mentioned in in other threads: there is NOTHING that a good cop hates more than a bullying, lying lawbreaker who wears a badge.

Agreed, that only makes sense. The bad eggs make your job harder. I'm not trying to imply you're a "bad cop", only you know what's in your heart. I can only read what's on a computer monitor. I know I don't always express exactly what I want to via the net, so I'm unwilling to lay a charge like that at you feet based on what I read.

What you need to consider is that more than one person has construed comments made by yourself and a few other police officers on this board to be a little high handed. Not just this thread. Again, I realize that what comes off in print may not be exactly what the author meant to imply or convey. But, care must be taken to clear up misunderstandings, not reinforce them.

On to my experience. USN, six years active, four years reserve with some of that time being reactivated. My senoir trip was Desert Shield, turned into Desert Storm. I provided security for assets. People, trucks, bombs and airplanes. In the beginning perimeter security sucked and I had a heck of a time (as did everyone else) in some of the remote areas with innocent minded locals just coming around to satisfy their curiosity. Wouldn't do to ventilate them and torque off the local leaders, so learning a few phrases of pidgen arabic and finding several locals who spoke some english became a priority. We didn't have non-lethal alternatives. You either played nice and got cooperation or started shooting. I much prefer the former.

After Desert Storm, I redployed to the persian gulf three more times in support of Operation Southern Watch. Again, providing security for assets involved in enforcing the no-fly zone south of the 32nd parallel. Spent a lot of that time in Bahrain, Fujarra (I think I spelled that right.) and Dubai where the bigger US ships came for liberty calls. Think permenant shore patrol.

I got out, then re-enlisted in the reserves after 9/11. Was assigned to a SeaBee battallion because that was about all that was available for Navy reservists in my area. Was sent to stateside installations (Hueneme and Belvoir) to replace battalions going overseas.

The kicker? I enlisted as an aircraft mechanic but also held a 9545 NEC (naval enlisted clasification). That's small arms and physical security. Guess which one they needed most.

I have been awarded the Good Conduct Medal, National Defense Medal, Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal, Southwest Asia Service Medal (three awards), Armed Forces Service Medal, Expert Rifleman Medal, Expert Pistol Medal, Combat Action ribbon, Meritorious Unit Citation ribbon and Sea Service ribbon (two awards).

 

[sacp81170a]

"Its OK if we beat the crap out of anyone we want, Tase them, or whatever we want to to cause we the cops and you aren't, and you don't even have the right to criticize us for our misconduct".

*SIGH* Here we go again. This is precisely the reason it's so difficult to become a certified law enforcement officer compared to other jobs. Start with a physical evaluation, including a PT test. Take an intelligence and aptitude test. Take a psychological evaluation consisting of a written test and oral interview with a licensed mental health practitioner. Submit to a background investigation including references from your friends and former employers and a credit check. Pass all these and *then* you get to the interview consisting of a board peppering you with questions about your basic integrity and testing your reactions under stress.

If you pass all these, then you can be trained. At any time during the training process you can be released for failure to perform adequately. After your basic training (academy) you are then on probation for a year and may only patrol under the direct supervision of another qualified officer certified by the state to train you. You have periodic evaluations of your performance and may be terminated at any time.

Then, after all this training, you are still required to take a class and submit to being tased before you are allowed to carry a Taser. I'm saying all this by way of background information.

And, I have mentioned in in other threads: there is NOTHING that a good cop hates more than a bullying, lying lawbreaker who wears a badge.

Sir, you are exactly correct. After all the screening and trying to prevent bad apples, some get through the process and some turn bad later. In order for the public to trust us we have to be more thorough in policing our own ranks than we are in policing the public.

What I'm trying to say here is that being a police officer isn't like working at McDonald's. This isn't to say that other professions aren't as demanding, but that law enforcement *is* a PROFESSION.

Given that, the non-professionals, the citizens we serve, have every right to criticize every aspect of our job performance, and they do so at every opportunity through the courts and the media. We are under the scrutiny of the legislature and the courts at every turn in every aspect of our jobs, and rightly so.

The Taser is another tool available to us to enable us to perform our jobs more safely and to protect the public more efficiently. Its use has been thoroughly examined by many courts and the bottom line is that if the tool is abused, the perpetrators of that abuse are punished. What I seem to be hearing in this and other threads is that if some people misuse that tool, then it should be banned from use by every potential user of that tool. This is the logic that the anti-gunners would use to take away your 2nd amendment rights. Ironic, huh?

 

[1911 guy]

And the point was?

What about that process makes it difficult to become a police officer? It's hard to have a good marriage, too. But I want it so I put effort into it. After my previous job (post Navy) I wanted a job that would take me out of the M.E. for good. So I spent a long time and a lot of money in school learning the machine trades. If you don't want it bad enough, get rid of it. Job, car, new gun. Doesn't matter. I made a vow to my wife, everything else is subject to change. My current job required six months of training under a qualified supervisor, I get random drug tests, yearly skill assesments and mandatory overtime. My average work week is 77.5 hours. 11.5 M-F (12 with 1/2 hr lunch) and 8 Sat-Sun. I want it because I'm home with my wife every day and the money is good. Nobody forced you to become a police officer.

Look, I know as well as you do that upwards of 99 percent of police officers are good people trying their damndest to do a good job. What gets the goat of some of us out here is the superiority complex that has crept into officers. That's the "high handed" attitude I mentioned earlier.

The guy in the original post deserved to get tazered. He behaved in a way that was percieved as menacing. A linebackeer coming toward me in that apparent frame of mind would generate some concern on my part, too. However, we return to the attitude thing and I quote our own Medula Oblongata:

For the record. If what is alleged here happened to me, a taser would be the least of the perps worries, I would be inclined to do something more permanent.

Why? You've got mobility and a little distance against an unarmed person. You've also got a less-than-lethal option. Goes to a bit of that attitude, I think. "I can, so I will". The officer in question saw fit to not kill the footbal player and used a tazer. Somehow your method is superior because it involves lethal force? Maybe I'm not the one who's judgement and experience needs to be questioned.

 

[hammer4nc]

One THR moderator, also a police officer, started this "credential challenge" thing recently as a debating tactic, and sure enough, now another alleged cop has followed suit.

It's a poor substitute for logical argument, contrary to forum rules, and makes one look like a thug.

Back on topic: Is this confrontational attitude is a direct consequence of the "Hiibel" decision? Has "failure to ID" (absent reasonable suspicion or probable cause) now become an arrestable offense? Some argued the slippery slope at the time. It has become reality.

 

[sacp81170a]

The officer in question saw fit to not kill the footbal player and used a tazer. Somehow your method is superior because it involves lethal force? Maybe I'm not the one who's judgement and experience needs to be questioned.

????????

I'm advocating *for* keeping Tasers as an option. My method involves lethal force? How did you get that out of my post? For the record, the level of force used to effect an arrest is determined by the arrestee.

So I spent a long time and a lot of money in school learning the machine trades.

Good, I'll refrain from telling you how to do your job. I'm sure it's difficult enough without everybody else looking over your shoulder.

One THR moderator, also a police officer, started this "credential challenge" thing recently as a debating tactic, and sure enough, now another alleged cop has followed suit.

It's a poor substitute for logical argument, contrary to forum rules, and makes one look like a thug.

How does laying out how one arrives at a certain point of view make one look like a thug? We hire expert witnesses to testify in front of juries all the time. Why? Because their experience and knowledge of their chosen field lends more weight to their opinions with the jury than just some random guy off the street. I never denigrated anyone else's experience, merely laid out a portion of my own. If that makes me a thug, then everyone on this board who forms an opinion based on their professional knowledge is a thug.

 

[Art Eatman]

Looks like folks got weary of Weary...

Art