Mormons and guns

[IdahoFarmer]

I recently told my sister that she and her husband should get a firearm. She said her husband was against it. As they are both Mormon, I did some research on the Mormon's view on firearms ownership. I put this together and sent it to my sister:

And Brigham Young said in his Journal of Discourses,Vol. 1, pg. 171-172,
July 31, 1853:

"As for this people fostering to themselves that the day has come for them
to sell their guns and ammunition to their enemies, and sit down to sleep in
peace, they will find themselves deceived, and before they know, they will
sleep until they are slain. They have got to carry weapons with them, to be
ready to send their enemies to hell in cross lots, whether they be
Lamanites, or mobs who may come to take their lives, or destroy their
property. We must be so prepared that they dare not come to us in a hostile
manner without being assured they will meet a vigorous resistance, and ten
to one they will meet their grave."


Responsible gun ownership is just that, a responsibility. All the reasons
not to own a gun are wiped out by responsbile gun ownership. Then, all that
remains are the reasons TO own a firearm... of which there is one at the
core: "Be Prepared". It is the Boy Scout motto for a reason.

 

[spacemanspiff]

THC had "Guns that Tamed the West" on the other night, and they quoted Brigham Young as insisting that all men and boys over the age of 12 (iirc) were to have a firearm on their person or within reach during their trek to the west.
it was also noted that the mormons favored having a concealable handgun as they had one hand tied up holding the bible.

 

[tetchaje1]

I'm a Mormon and I own lots of guns.

I don't see how your sister could have said that considering that Utah has the largest single concentration of Mormons in the world, yet we also have some of the least restrictive gun laws and CC laws in the nation.

It is beside the point that Utah also has the highest percentage, per capita, of reservists and Nat'l Guardsmen on Active duty in Kuwait, Afghanistan, etc... Utah is the only state in the nation where Bill Clinton finished last in the election of 1996. We also have one of the larger Air Force bases (Hill AFB) and the nation's largest chem. weapons facility (Tooele). Not to mention that one of our senators (Hatch) and our Atty. General (Shurtleff) are Mormons and have carry permits.

As for supposed historical pacifism among Mormons, don't forget the Nauvoo Legion and the Mormon Battalion during the early days of the church, and the fact that Joseph Smith defended his comrades in the Carthage Jail from a murderous mob with a pepperbox until it misfired (after which he was murdered by the mob).

Mormons have a proud heritage of fiercly supporting the Constitution of the United States.

One last quote from the Book of Mormon (we believe that it is a 2nd set of scripture that testifies of Jesus Christ like the Bible, but from the American continent...) should seal the deal that their opinion as Mormons is a definite minority to the rest of us.

And they were doing that which they felt was the duty which they owed to their God; for the Lord had said unto them, and also unto their fathers, that: Inasmuch as ye are not guilty of the first offense, neither the second, ye shall not suffer yourselves to be slain by the hands of your enemies.

And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed. Therefore for this cause were the Nephites contending with the Lamanites, to defend themselves, and their families, and their lands, their country, and their rights, and their religion.

Alma 43:46-47 (emphasis added)

 

[Russ]

John Browning and his very famous son, John Moses Browning, were both Mormons and gun makers. In Nauvoo Illinois, they have restored John Browning's (the dad) gun shop. His son, John Moses learned from his father and is responsible for many fine gun designs. The 1911, BHP and BAR come to mind.

In fact, Joseph Smith had a pepperbox with him and fired it at some in the mob that eventually killed him. Mormons are certainly not anti gun. Your brother in law may be but he can't blame that on the Church.

You mention Brigham Young. One of his body guards was Orrin Porter Rockwell. He was known to carry as many as 24 guns on his person.

Self defence is a responsibility.

 

[tetchaje1]

Russ,
Some of the stories surrounding Orrin Porter Rockwell are pretty wild...

24 guns on your person at once...better invest in a good gun belt...



Nice comments about JMB too.

 

[Blackhawk]

Interesting stuff about Mormons.

 

[4v50 Gary]

During the Mexican American war Johnathan Browning was among the men who wanted to answer to the country's call for a Morman Battalion. He was told that as a gunsmith, he was too valuable to march off to battle. His duty was at home making guns.

 

[PDshooter]

"Utah" That's a great state!
When I retire that's where I'm going!!!

The Hell with Illinois!

 

[Correia]

Another well armed Mormon here.

 

[444]

I have seen guns and ammo recommended in various publications put out by the church about the years supply.

I have also asked point blank at the church what the church's position was on guns and they stated point blank that the church was in favor of private firearm ownership.

 

[Russ]

tetchaje1,

I've heard that one about Porter Rockwell and him being caught with 24+ guns a number of times. Probably a myth. When you think of it, it does seen kind of wild. He'd have had to have more than a couple of gun belts to carry that much weight even if they were all derringers!

If you get to Nauvoo, check out Browning's gun shop. Back before the days of decent machinery, it was back breaking work to make a gun. It's hard to believe any one could afford one as much hand work went into one. Rifleing the barrel was done by pulling a tool through the barrel by hand a little bit at a time. Must have taken forever.

Russ

 

[aerod1]

I am not a Morman. I am an Episcopalian. I do however applaud the Morman Church when it comes to their stance on gun ownership. I wish the Episcopal Church would be so realistic. My church is a very conservative Episcopal Church, unlike most in our denomination. There isn't much the national church does that we agree with. The Episcopal Church is loosing members because of the liberal views most parishes promote.
Jim Hall

 

[tetchaje1]

Russ,
It has been a long time since I was at Nauvoo last. my wife and I were considering making a trip there pretty soon. The Browning gunshop is definitely on my list.

It actually isn't too inconceivable to carry 24 guns. Let's see...a quadruple shoulder rig setup with 6 more on the belt around the waist makes 10. 2 up the sleeves and 4 in ankle holsters (can you imagine the leg work-out to walk around... ), plus a couple of guns slung over the back... Hmmm... I can only get to 18. Oh Yeah!!! He probably had the other 6 on his horse...

The literature about church members being encouraged to have several guns and a stored supply of ammunition along with a years supply of food and water is true. I believe it was Ezra Taft Benson who made this statement in the mid-80's. I am not sure of the exact reference to it, though, as I was pretty young in the 80's. Other THR members here could probably give the reference much better than I could.

My wife and I have a couple of months worth of food, and a couple of weeks worth of water stored up, but we are space-limited because we live in an apartment as college students. We'll get up to the year mark in supplies when we get a house, though. We've been kind of poor lately, so my ammunition storage has been getting burned up, along with several of my guns needing to be sold. I still have enough to supply a small army, though...

 

[4v50 Gary]

When carrying 24 guns?

How does one:

(a) Walk?
(b) Climb into or exit a car?
(c) Go potty?

 

[tetchaje1]

When carrying 24 guns?
How does one:

(a) Walk?
(b) Climb into or exit a car?
(c) Go potty?

Gives new meaning to "An army of One" doesn't it...

Aerod1,
Good luck to you with your fellow brothers and sisters in the Episcopalian church. I breaks my heart when religious faiths begin to waiver in stances that were once never an issue. I hope that common sense prevails and the general sentiment doesn't turn completely against private firearms ownership in your church.

You have my support and prayers.

 

[MountainPeak]

My former boss was a mormon and he had a large gun collection.

 

[moa]

Not only are the Mormoms gun owners, but they where gun users. Back in the 1800s they and their Indian allies ambushed and massacred about 120 white settlers. I think the Indians were Paiutes.

Cannot remember what the Mormons reasons were. I think they were just trying to keep non-Mormons out.

Cannot remember what the legal outcome was.

 

[Jim March]

Before they were chased out of the Illinois area, a number of different laws specifically banned Mormons from gun carry.

This was the first time in the US that a technologically advanced group suffered under a specific gun ban.

Their response?

They invented the big-bore snubby revolver by chopping 1851 model Colts and similar percussion revolvers down to a 2" or 3" barrel and ditching the rammer hardware.

They then became quite good at making concealment holsters .

(The guns were known as "Avenging Angels", which was also the term for the Mormon security force.)

 

[CZ-75]

Mountain Meadow Massacre, I believe it was called.

 

[Baba Louie]

http://historytogo.utah.gov/hmearlypio.html

Some good, some not so good.

I'm not sure if the joke at the end is funny.

Being born and raised in Independence MO, I kinda fit the mold, just a little Reorganized thats all.

Adios

 

[Chipperman]

Any response from your sister yet?

 

[cratz2]

One of my best friends here in Indiana is a Mormon and he and his family are well-armed.

My mother had an Hispanic friend when we lived in Texas and I think they all carried.

 

[Powderman]

If you get to Nauvoo, check out Browning's gun shop. Back before the days of decent machinery, it was back breaking work to make a gun. It's hard to believe any one could afford one as much hand work went into one. Rifleing the barrel was done by pulling a tool through the barrel by hand a little bit at a time. Must have taken forever.

Just so. But, have you checked out Kreiger and/or Obermeyer barrels? Recognized as some of the most accurate and dimensionally correct rifle barrels in the world, they make their rifle barrels using the cut-rifling process--one groove at a time.

Ya know, Utah is sounding better and better all the time. Me and the wife are seriously thinking about moving to Wyoming.

But, Utah's intriguing..................

 

[444]

Utah very well be the most beautiful place I have ever been.

 

[waterdog]

It was the Mountain Meadow Massacre ( this better?)

I applaud any American or group of Americann who choose to arm themselves.

But there are two sides to any story, I grew up with mormons, live among mormons and have worked for mormons.

I have my opinions based on personal experiences, and suggest that we not get into a thread about mormons, because it will
eventually get shut down.

waterdog