Any arguments over guns during Christmas?

[Aren't we all]

This Christmas I taught my Grandpa to shoot, scared my Aunt (She's a priest of her own religion) got a swedish Mauser from my parents, a Henry .22 pump from my Dad and had my aunt say that She hoped I wouldn't shoot up a school.

That last part was funny.

 

[CoRoMo]

I don't think it is appropriate to carry or even talk about guns on at a time that is supposed to celibrate the Prince of Peace.

Good grief man!! Not appropriate to even talk about guns!!!!!!?????

Anti-2A rubbish.


My Christmas went well, Mom got a 642 from Dad. (I guess that's blaspheme to you)
My family, extended family, and my wifes' are all very pro-2A.
My cousin hinted at an anti attitude when the 642 was being passed around for everyone to see. She (cousin) refused to touch the revolver and said, "I'm not a gun person". I wanted to come out of my shoes, but hey, it was Christmas.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

"Peace through superior firepower."

 

[RPCVYemen]

My vote for holier than thou post of the day goes to Yemen!

I calls them as I sees them. Some people like that, and some people don't.

Make any choice you want - but then cowboy up and take responsibility for the choice you make.

If you want to have an argument, then have it - and accept the consequences.

To my mind "I don't know how it happened" is a responsibility avoidance maneuver. Sorta like a gun shooting someone all by itself ...

Mike

 

[notorious]

....

 

[notorious]

I calls them as I sees them. Some people like that, and some people don't.

Make any choice you want - but then cowboy up and take responsibility for the choice you make.

If you want to have an argument, then have it - and accept the consequences.

To my mind "I don't know how it happened" is a responsibility avoidance maneuver. Sorta like a gun shooting someone all by itself ...

Mike

I see your point...

However, sometimes it's not so much that I have no idea how it happens but that I refuse to back down and bite my tongue on my principles when the Antis spout their ill-informed and sometimes blantantly false and ignorant rhetoric.

I am like you, I tell it like it is when people issue the challenge. Family or not, I refuse to lie down and be a victim of Anti-gun attacks which always seem to fall into the same categories, i.e. gun owners/carriers are paranoid, insecure, impotent, backwater, stupid hicks from the last century.

 

[Joe Demko]

Does marring a family gathering with an argument do anything to advance or protect your rights? It takes two to argue. If one refuses to engage, there is no argument. I do not go to holiday parties to have arguments. Even if I were, I have enough courtesy for the other people there not to shizzle up the party for them by participating in a scene.

 

[RPCVYemen]

However, sometimes it's not so much that I have no idea how it happens but that I refuse to back down and bite my tongue on my principles when the Antis spout their ill-informed and sometimes blatantly false and ignorant rhetoric.

I was objecting only to the "I have no idea how it happened" tone in the OP.

Long experience has taught me that arguments within a family are never about what is right, and always about who is right.

My family members all understand where I stand on guns and shooting - I don't hide my enjoyment of shooting - or my membership in the NRA - from my family. I also understand where they stand on these issues. They smile and shake their heads when something comes up about my hobby (including the sister who clerked for Ginsburg). When they make anti remark, then it's my time to laugh and shake my head.

It may help that we all grew up shooting, so there is not much in the way of fear/ignorance with regard to this issue - it's very much a policy difference.

It may also help that the strongest anti - the sister who clerked for Ginsburg - is (obviously) a very bright lawyer. She knows Heller, and knows that it's the law of the land. As with most of the bright lawyers I know, she understands and respects philosophies of constitutional interpretation with which she dopes not agree.

When arguing with a family member, I ask myself, "What is my goal here?" It seems to me that there are really only three reasons to engage in that kind of argument:

1. To persuade the person I am arguing with. That ain't gonna happen.
2. To persuade other folks who are listening. In this case, it's family, and that ain't gonna happen anyway.
3. To "raise the flag" so that people know where I stand. These folks have all known me for decades - they know where I stand.

So what does an argument with family accomplish? Nothing at all - just hurt feelings. And it does upset folks who didn't really over to listen to an argument. It's a lose - lose situation. Why play that game?

Your analysis may be different.

Mike

 

[CoRoMo]

Does marring a family gathering with an argument do anything to advance or protect your rights?

Definitely not. Nobody should be marring a family gathering for any reason whatsoever.

However, in certain situations such as my family, you have only one solitary anti, or lib, or treehugger, and the rest of us don't really want their rants to be heard by our kids unchallenged. Those of us that are pro 2A, and want our kids to know truth, responsibility, and right from wrong, don't mind challenging (not arguing or belittling) that one individual when they arbitrarily begin a tirade of unacceptable misrepresentations.

Thankfully, this doesn't happen much in my family gatherings at all, but I can remember a few. Usually, when it does, the numbers are in our favor and we try to set things straight and it's done extremely diplomatically. After which, we gather up the kids and go shooting.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

my clan is all Pro -Gun!

 

[logical]

I have a little quote clipped from a book that I carry in my wallet:

"Consider how hard it is to change yourself and you will realize what little chance you have of changing others"

Now sure sometimes you change a persons mind, but to engage a person you know to be illogical, stubborn, unreasonable or just plain stupid is to fail to be the bigger person.

I do not fear being called out for giving yemen a run for his money.....some ways of behaving ARE better than others.

 

[DMW]

I had a minor disagreement. Two women here for the holidays didn't like the idea of guns around the house, even though they are in a locked safe bolted to the floor. I said that people are the problem, not guns. There are probably fewer guns per capita today than 30 years ago so the guns aren't the problem, its the upbringing of the people that use them in the wrong way. And, a gun in your house makes you safe from a gun in someone else's hands. I asked, what would you do if someone walked into your house with a knife in the middle of the night or the middle of the day? The police won't be there on time to help you, even if you could get to a phone. They both agreed - not enthusiastically but at least they changed their opinions a little.

 

[woodybrighton]

My brother enthusiastic machine gunner not enthusiastic about civilian ownership
of firearms.
The need to take on the state his view bull**** tryannys don't appear overnight.
CCW this being the UK there are not vast amount of guns in circulation so no need to carry two mass shootings in the 20th century 2.
what half a dozen in the states last year?
more access to handguns means the deranged can and will access them
different in the states freely available guns and ammo so crack down unlikely to stop bad people having them.
also obsession with firearms falling into the "myth of weapons" IF I need a weapon got keys to armoury
also have a knife wire petrol etc etc

 

[notorious]

My brother enthusiastic machine gunner not enthusiastic about civilian ownership
of firearms.
The need to take on the state his view bull**** tryannys don't appear overnight.
CCW this being the UK there are not vast amount of guns in circulation so no need to carry two mass shootings in the 20th century 2.
what half a dozen in the states last year?
more access to handguns means the deranged can and will access them
different in the states freely available guns and ammo so crack down unlikely to stop bad people having them.
also obsession with firearms falling into the "myth of weapons" IF I need a weapon got keys to armoury
also have a knife wire petrol etc etc

I would respond if I know what you were talking about. Other than that, look at what wonders the UK and Australia total gun bans have done to gun violence in the country. In two countries supposedly devoid of guns in civilian hands, the gun violence rate went up!

Anyway, let me clarify what I meant about talking to my family about guns at gatherings. Everyone in my family knows what I do and that I am armed 24/7 if I am out and about.

People who don't understand the need for it will never get it until they become victims and wake up. Some never do and still live in Lalaland where they just schlep through each day hoping for the goodness of humanity to see them through to the grave.

Anytime a gun discussion comes up, it's because a wisea55 or anti chimes in about me being paranoid and asks out loud in front of everyone if it is necessary for me to have my gun with family. I will not sit there idly by while they spread their sheep mentality to everyone around that the world is a beautiful place and no harm can come to someone just because they are with family.

Murders and violent crimes are visited upon family by each other as much, if not more, than by strangers, if they really want to hear about that line of argument.

I tell them simply, if they don't like it, don't look at it or don't think about it. But it's my natural born God given right to be armed for my defense and the defense of those I love, even if they don't love guns. If they've never spent a minute in my shoes and seen the inhumanity visited upon fellow men by other not so well-meaning men, they would probably be more armed than I am.

Another thing, why should it be made out that we are on the defensive? They should be the ones that have to explain why they DON'T carry guns and defend their position that it's not necessary and the government will save them.

 

[Huddog]

My situation got really loud when my wife opened the .22 lever gun and she started shouting her approval.

No other discussions except the lesson earlier tonight with the snap caps.