mosin-nagant rifles

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bhp31

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ive been looking into buying one of these rifles for a while. HOwever, i noticed there are two different sizes of this gun, one version being a little longer than the other. the shorter one is known as the "carbine version".

are there any differences between these guns besides the length? are they made in the same factory, same quality, same accuracy, etc.?

im trying to figure out which one would be the better buy, seeing as though they're both the same price at the gunshop.

any help is appreciated.
 
Technically the rifle should be more accurate due to it's longer sight radius. However, in practice I've found that the stiffer carbine barrel and loose Soviet manufacturing tolerances even things out. You could get a rifle that patterns like a shotgun or a carbine that's a tack driver.

One thing I did notice, the carbine is giving up some velocity in the form of a huge fireball coming out of the muzzle.

A Mosin Nagant is a great buy no matter which model you get. Take a look at the Mosins they have in the gunshop. Bring a flashlight and inspect the bore carefully. If you hold the trigger back, you can open the bolt and pull it straight back out of the rifle. Inspect the chamber for throat wear. Check the muzzle for a good crown and make sure it's not counter bored. Put the bolt back in and try the trigger to see if it's stiff and gritty(these things have huge, sturdy firing pins so dry firing won't hurt it, but ask the shop owner first). Pick the best one they have no matter what model.
 
The actions and magazines are all the same. Factories may vary but quality does not significantly vary.

Models:
1891- This is a long barreled version that was the standard issue infantry rifle for Russia in both revolutions and WWI. You are probably not going to find this model in great quantity because many were converted to 1891/30 models.

1891/30 - This is the 1930 design which was the main infantry rifle for the USSR during WWII. It has a long barrel.

1891/38 - This was the model 1938 carbine which has a short 20" barrel and likewise saw much service in WWII.

1891/39 - Finland took many captured or purchased russian 1891 and 1891/30 rifles and rebarreled them with heavier barrels and beefier stocks and called them model 1939 rifles. they also have a different front and rear sight, the front is adjusted by turning screws. The 1939 rifle is claimed to be more accurate, but not necessarily in my experience. The 1939 will be the most expensive because of the heavier barrel and easier to adjust front sight.

1891/44 - This is the model 1944 carbine (20" barrel) which has a fixed bayonet which folds to the right side of the rifle. This is the most abundant of the carbines in the US market at this time.

1891/59 - This is a carbine which was made during the cold war by taking surplus 91/30 rifles and cutting the barrel to 20" No significant difference in this rifle and the 1938 carbine except history.

A word on receivers, the early ones were "hex" meaning they had flat surfaces with angles to approximate a hexagon. Later ~1930? had rounded receivers. They both are identical in function, but I think the hex is prettier.

I'm not sure what you are going to do with your rifle, but decide if you want a long or short barrel. I would avoid the 1944 carbine because of the fixed bayonet unless you want it for historical reasons. Scout scopes can replace the rear sight but otherwise the Mosin-Nagant is not receptive to optics without significant gunsmithing.

milsurpshooter.net
 
From what I have seen, I would say that the M-39 is more expensive for two reasons.
One is that there are probably fewer of them and there is more collector value.
The other is that they are generally built way better.
Don't get me wrong on this one. There is nothing wrong with your average $59 91/30. I want to get another one myself. I am just saying that out of the two I would choose an M-39 every time.
If you just want a shooter or a beater then the 91/30 will do as well as the other. If you want a rifle that rivals the quality of modern sporting arms, then lay your hands on an unissued Finn. ;)
 
I bought a M91/30 yesterday and shot it today. I managed 4" groups at 100yds in the rain/snow/wind offhand. If you are a little picky you can find a good shooter. Mine shoots high but according to the Russian manual 91/30's were sighted in for a 300m zero. I think I can modify the front sight post to bring the POA down a bit. These rifles are a lot of fun, cheap to shoot and they breed on the rack. I have three Mosins, 91/30, Russian M38 and an Hungarian M44 and I like shooting all of them.

ZM
 
I've had and enjoyed a number of Mosins over the past several years, both carbine and rifle versions. I like the gun a lot and always recommend it as an inexpensive beginning rifle. My personal preferance is for the rifle over the carbine because that big fireball you get when you shoot the carbine. (That's how the Germans knew they were up against an infantry unit - rifles, no flash - or a recon or engineer unit - carbines, big flash.) When you get one, try to go to a gunshow where they have a stack of them. Get a good bore light and pick out the one with the best looking bore (shiny, no obvious pitting) and then learn to be a rifleman with the rifle you have. My experience has been that the rifle tighten up and gets more accurate as it heats up, after say 5 or 10 rds, but I know of others who experienced just the opposite. The rifles are a ton of fun, a fine tool for hunting and a great rifle to learn on and improve your shooting skill.
 
I have about 15 Finnish and 8 Russian mosin nagants in both rifle and carbine configurations. The Russian carbines (M44 and M38) in my collection average 3-4" groups. The Russian rifles (m91 and m91/30) in my collection average about the same. However, I do not own a single Finnish rifle which shoots worse than 2" groups at 100 yards. My older rifles M28/30s, M28, and M27 are pretty difficult to come by these days but are great shooters. The only readily available Finn rifles these days are the M39s. The Finns did not release these rifles from the armories unless they shot 1.5 cm groups at 100 meters. Whether the M39 is one of the $200-$300 unissued ones or is a $100 cracked stock special, they are pretty well guaranteed to be shooters. I have a M39-B barrel that amazes my friends when we go shooting. Using iron sights only, I can equal and sometimes outdo their shooting with new rifles utilizing scopes. As long as I do my part, that rifle just won't miss, even with surplus ammo.
 
thanks for the info, fellas...very helpful..i think i will be picking one up tomorrow..maybe i'll purchase one of each..:D

one more question: these rifles are unfired,new, $95.. is this a good price?
 
It's a strange market when it can be said that $95 is on the high side for a like-new rifle. . .:rolleyes: At my local Big 5 sporting goods store the last time I checked they were going for $80 so by comparison you could say that $95 is a bit high, but let's be honest here. $95 is still a very good price if you are happy with the condition of the rifles in question. When you are dealing with milsurp rifles, there is always going to be a bit more variation in condition than with new commercial rifles, so personally I wouldn't sweat the extra $15 per rifle if the barrels are pristine. The ones I saw at the Big 5 had only pretty good barrels. Be sure to ask if the $95 price includes the accessories, too. ;) HTH.
 
As Beetle said, $95 is a bit on the high side as a percentage of dollars into it not actual dollars. Wholesalers are selling them now for $50-60 & when you factor in shipping & the store's overhead then the price really isn't all that out of line (especially considering that you get to handpick the best more than likely).

one more question: these rifles are unfired,new, $95..
Click to expand...

Don't expect any suplus rifle to be new & unfired, certainly not for $95. More than likely it was rearsenaled by the Soviets (restored to working order & cleaned up quite a bit) 50 years ago & shoved into a warehouse somewhere out in Siberia.

Still, a good deal on an interesting rifle with lots of history & fun to shoot.

Greg
 
Yes $95 is a good deal for a Excellent or better rifle. The fact that I bought an Excellent condition 91/30 for $40 does not mean that it is a bad deal for $95. The cheap ones on the internet are $60 but you add $12 for shipping and $20 for a transfer and in the end you pay $92 for a rifle you have not been able to inspect.
 
just got 2 rifles today- 1 m38 mosin nagant, and 1 schmidt rubin...

the Mosin is in almost pristine condition. it may have been test fired or used for target practice once or twice, but that's about it...
 
Yes, bhp31, pix, please! Here's a link you'll find interesting, a must if you own an MN: www.russian-mosin-nagant.com BobW and the rest of us await your post! And don't forget the Pix there either!:D Here's mine, (only one so far:( ) , an Ishivsk M38 in an M44 stock, with a 1.13" couterbore. Shoots great, I can't wait to add more to my collection!:)





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i'll be posting pics soon. gotta get my digital camera back from a buddy.
 
Some are saying $95 retail is high. Not around here it seems -- I picked up mine for $130 and under shady circumstances. I've done this TWICE with this dealer and I'll never do it again

Both times the guns were wrapped up in wax paper, greased up, and signed "DO NOT REMOVE PAPER!" So, you've got to blindly purchase the gun but they assure you they're unissued surplus rifles. So far, it looks like they're right but for $130 I'd at least like to look at the furniture and the bore, etc. I think it's a gimmick, but I know better now.

I'm still not ticked at the price either. For what I've got $130 is certainly a fair trade.

With the pricing stuff aside, MN's are the #1 reason I want to get a C&R. Maybe I'll turn in the paperwork this weekend.

They are FUN, and they are CHEAP, and they are SOLID! Cheap to feed too which I find really odd as 7.x62x54 isn't exactly a poodle round.

I've ordered up all the parts to put a pistol scope on the thing (4x) with Darrel's "Scout" Scope mount that doesn't require any permanent changes to the rifle. I'm friggen geeked about it. So far it's been pretty accurate and puts 'em where I want 'em. My eyesight is horrid though so I'm hoping w/ the scope I'll finally be able to find out what she's really capable of.

The m44 I got actually looks good. The wood's not beat to crap on it. A little bit of scraping here and there but over the summer I might refinish it. My mother worked for years on furniture and knows how to strip/refinish wood quite well. Might be fun to get her in on my gun-nut thing :)

If things go right I'll be taking it black bear hunting at the end of the year. Yes, I will look odd with a Russian caliber weapon, with wood stocks, and bayonet, and a pistol scope attached to it... but I'll be using something that's about 1/3rd of everybody else's equipment in cost. It should be "good enough" too.

I want to get my C&R and buy 3-5 more of them, preferabbly in the full length versions, then find the best shooter and turn that into my 'Bear Gun'. Failing that we'll just see how the M44 does.

Oh, and there's something insanely satisfactory about looking down at your rifle and seeing a sicle and hammer on it.
 
I paid $95 for an "excellent" 1943 91/30 Iszvehek(sp?) - apparently the most common type of 91/30 there is- and would do so again,!

Now I want a M44. They aren't kidding when they say they are addictive1
 
by the way, the day i went into the store to buy the rifles, they were having a sale..i got the mosin for $85 and the rubin for $105...

cant wait to shoot em...

ill post pics soon.
 
I have an Ishevsk 91/30, excellent, I think 1937. Too lazy to check now.

What's the price on a genuine 91/30 sniper model, usually?
 
A genuine M91/30 sniper sells for $650 and up. There are repros for sale by IO for around $450.
 
Big 5

Big 5 usually cycles their Mosin's on sale each week for about $80. They carry 91/30's, M38's, and M44's. The big advantage is that one can actually see what they are buying ahead of time.

And you can lay them away if short on funds at the time as well. My ex-dragoon pictured above came from Big 5.
 
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