Mosins .... 1942, 1943 ... how to tell if they are shootable?

[wacki]

I bought a couple of Mosins. How do I know that it's safe to shoot? What kind of inspections would a gunsmith do?

Also, how hard is it to get replacement barrels for a Mossin? yes, I know it would be cheaper to just buy another rifle but I'm interested for curiosity sake.

 

[1911Today]

"Mosin"

99.9% of the Mosin rifles purchased nowadays in America are shootable. They are arsenal refinished in Ukraine (look for a square with a diagonal line through it, the refinisher's mark), and the bad ones are tossed out and scrapped, and the good ones are sent to the states. HOWEVER, if you have any question, look at the bore. It will range from dark and dirty with soft rifling, to bright and shiny with crisp rifling. Most 91/30s (long rifles) fall somewhere in the middle, and most M44s (shorter) have nicer barrels. Even if the bore is dark, the presence of some rifling will make it shootable. Also, get a gunsmith to check the headspace. If the bore and headspace check out, you're good to go.

Milsurp barrels (ranging from poor to excellent condition) are available for a token sum ($35), and considering that the Mosin barrel is a thread-on, in theory it isn't that tough of a job. But heaven help the bastard that has to unscrew a Russian barrel that has been on the receiver for over 60 years.

 

[vector248]

+1 on what 1911 said. I have several Mosin's my oldest is one from '39 and i shoot all of them. Absoutley have the headspace checked, even if the numbers match. My gunsmith is tired of my dragging some old mil surplus rifle i to have the headspace checked. You should have the headspace checked on any used gun, just a good rule of thumb, especally one as old as a Nagant.

 

[BigHooter]

diddo's to the other 2...
old mosin's have some crown damage.. but nothing your smithy cant handle

 

[BoltCollector]

All excellent advice!

I've had a lot of Mosins, some with "excessive" headspace, the rest with "Just almost excessive" headspace. These rifles were usually not assembled by the finest gunsmiths (Ha!) so should be checked. It is possible to do the cellophane tape headspace test if you are comfortable with dissasembling the bolt and u have some ammo avaliable. If you can't find a Smith and just have to shoot them, strap them in a rest and fire them from behind a barrier a few times, this way u can at least examine the cases. I'd stick with modern brass cased ammo until you know for sure. Jus my 2 cents.

 

[BoltOperated]

Headspace!

All good advice but I just want to add to the issue of headspace...
ALWAYS check it when acquiring a new milsurp, any kind, from anywhere!!!

Most everything else can be verified by careful visual inspection, using common sense. Even my "worst" Mosins are shootable, even though they may not impress on paper, their headspace falls within specs, etc... they're safe and that's your minimum standard - a safe rifle. Unless of course, it's to be a wall-hanger.

Good luck, stay safe!
B

 

[foghornl]

The headspace on my M-44 was described as "generous, but OK"...the bolt would not fully close on the No-Go gauge, so it is in spec.

 

[jjohnson]

Bolt Collector - Huh?

Okay, I'll play....

It is possible to do the cellophane tape headspace test if you are comfortable with dissasembling the bolt and u have some ammo avaliable.

That's a new one on me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. How does that one work?

Thanks....

 

[BoltCollector]

Most cellophane tape is @ .002" thick, you disassemble bolt like you would to use a regular headspace gauge (remove extractor, firing pin, whatever could provide resistance) and use tape "shims" on the back of a cartridge case to get an approxamate measurement. 1 or 2 pieces and you're OK, 3 or more and It's too much headspace. Shims are easier to put on the bolt face of a Mosin, easier to put on the casing if checking a mauser. It's much easier to have a real No-Go gauge, but sometimes you don't. You can also use tape shims on a GO Gauge to get an idea of how much headspace a rifle does have. I'm not saying that this is the only way to go, or that it's a replacement for a good smith, but it's way better than just going out and test firing blind.

 

[jws527]

There is a cheap and (relatively) safe way to do this - get a piece of long string, go out to the range when you can be alone, rig the rifle up to a vise and tie the string to the trigger...I think you get the picture.

Seriously, just make sure the head spacing checks out and you'll be fine. My friends and I used to laugh about these rifles because of their price (well that, and the fact that most of the gun show pieces were beat to hell). We just naturally assumed that a "cheap" rifle made in Russia would be useless at best and dangerous (to the shooter) at worst. I bought two of them for myself as wall hangers when I got my C&R. Again, my friends and I had a good laugh about them. "Loser has to shoot a Mosin today..."

One day, curiosity got the better of me and I actually dragged them both out to the range. Not only did they function, but they functioned well - perhaps not the most accurate rifles I have (my 91/30 is decent, but my M44 is all over the place), but fun and functional. They're also durable as hell. Really, the Mosins are only $70 because of a wonderful concept we call supply and demand - it would probably cost hundreds to build one new today.

 

[Brian41]

Ditto, just check the head spaces and if they're good just pop a few rounds through it at arms length away from your body. that's worked on 4 mosin's for me.

 

[Hoxviii]

Lesson I learned was to pay real close attention to the rifling at the muzzle (duh, right?).

First 91/30 I picked up I couldn't keep on a 2'x2' piece of paper at 50 yards and it threw a 14' diameter ring at 100 yards (as I was shooting my spotter was watching sand kick up off of the backstop, and I actually hit the target of the next booth over once).

Sold that one off for what I had in it and picked up another with bright and sharp rifling, and that one shoots pretty darn well.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

I think he might mean safe to shoot, not accurate.

 

[swgunner]

I am curious, Mosin Nagants headspace on the rim, this is because the Russians didn't have the tools to properly machine the chamber, and to keep costs low. It also allows the use of different ammunition, without having to rechamber the rifle (original ammo was lead round nose). So my question is how is head space important if it spaces on the rim. Believe me I know headspace is important which is why I have go/no go gauge for m2 on my keychain.

 

[gidaeon]

I picked up a 1943 tula. I made sure I got one with a clean barrel. No obvious pitting and good rifling. I picked the only one that was NOT counter bored BUT I failed to check crown, duh... Haven't shot it yet. only the end of barrel looks worn.

I always learn a new lesson every time I buy a used firearm. Then I again I realize a lot of guys order these mosin's sight unseen and still like them.

 

[lencac]

Go order a set of headspace gauges from Midway ......... not expensive. Then you can use them anytime you see Mosins you are looking to buy also. Also I recommend lead fishing weights of the right size and slug the barrel for diameter. They may range from .309 to over .313. Clean the bore first as best as possible. Mosin actions are known to be brutally strong though. A dark bore will increase pressures as opposed to a good clean bore. But long story short ............. buy your own headspace gauges. Headspace can be "changed" somewhat by trying different bolthead pieces. Then all you have to do is figure out how not to get it to shoot 10 inches high at a 100 yrds.

 

[LeibstandarteAdH]

Mosin Nagants headspace on the rim, this is because the Russians didn't have the tools to properly machine the chamber

No, Mosin Nagants headspace on the rim because rimmed cartridges headspace on the rim. And 7.62x54r is a fully rimmed cartridge.

It also allows the use of different ammunition, without having to rechamber the rifle (original ammo was lead round nose)

The chamber has nothing to do with the types of projectiles that can be used. Neither does the rim, or headspace.

 

[Funderb]

Mosin Nagants headspace on the rim, this is because the Russians didn't have the tools to properly machine the chamber

HAHAHAHAHA. Really?