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Mossberg .410 for elderly home defense?

Discussion in 'Shotguns' started by SDG, Mar 11, 2012.

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  1. SDG

    SDG Member

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    I have an elderly gentleman friend (around 65) that is looking for a home (apt. actually) defense weapon. He is definitely not a gun guy. I doubt that he has ever shot a gun and if he has it was a very long time ago.

    He is asking me for advice on what to get and I was originally thinking an SP101 or GP100 loaded with .38 as recoil would not be a great thing for him. But now I am thinking about the Mossberg .410 with a pistol grip. I am thinking that it would have a couple of advantages in this situation.

    First, it would be cheaper. Price is not the only thing but it is certainly a factor.

    Second, you get the chambering sound with the pump action.

    Third, I suspect (but don't know for sure) that the .410 would be more effective while still being short enough.

    Fourth, I haven't shot a .410 but I suspect that the recoil would be manageable even for an elderly person.

    I see the only drawback as being that you have to pump it to chamber another round as opposed to just pulling the trigger again. Like I said, he is not a gun guy and, although he will shoot it, he will not get much practice. That is why a semi-auto is out of the question.

    What do you think?
     
  2. pikid89

    pikid89 Member

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    Maybe on the .410...i won't get into that
    NO on the pistol grip...a full or youth stock is 1000% better in every regard since he won't be breaching doors
    And PLEASE don't try to convince him (or yourself) that pumping the shotgun will cause said bad guy to soil himself, turn tail and run....

    Given the limited info at hand, I feel like a Steel, double action only .38spc would be the best weapon in this situation...easy to load and unload, easy to SEE that its empty

    Perhaps one of the NYPD surplus DAO S&W M-64s that jg sales had..less than 300 bucks
     
  3. toivo

    toivo Member

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    Agreed. I would look for a field-model 500E. You can get them for a little over $200 if you look for sales. Then add an 18.5" barrel, and you'll end up with something like this ...

    [​IMG]

    ... plus an extra barrel, for a little over what you would've spent for the pistol-grip-only Cruiser model.

    Or look for one of these:

    [​IMG]

    I don't know how much they cost, but I bet it's more than they should considering that it's just a 500E with an extra doodad on the forearm.

    And that's a good idea too. I paid $250 for this one:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2012
  4. Fred Fuller

    Fred Fuller Moderator Emeritus

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    I would definitely not suggest a PGO shotgun, even a .410, for someone who is not a gun person and will not get much if any training/practice in using it. In fact I'm not so sure a pump shotgun in any gauge or configuration is a good idea, for someone who's not in a position to use it enough in live fire to develop a good level of familiarity and confidence.

    The "chambering sound" of a pump shotgun is very much oversold as a deterrent IMHO.

    For most non-shooters, it seems to me that a long gun is a better idea than a handgun for defense, simply because it is easier to use/hit with a long gun that offers four points of contact. I am a shotgun proponent in most cases, but for people who are not familiar with guns and who won't get much of a chance to get familiar with them, I think a pistol caliber carbine is a better idea.

    I also don't see any reason for a semiauto to be "out of the question," because the manual of arms is just as simple with a semiauto as with anything else. Since budget is a major consideration in this case, it seems to me that a HiPoint carbine (offered in 9mm, .40S&W and .45ACP) should at least be considered. My only experience so far has been with the 9mm version, but that has been uniformly positive with the three I have owned so far.
     
  5. gp911

    gp911 Member

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    Take him shooting, see what he likes. He may hate shooting handguns or dislike shouldering long guns due to arthritis, old injuries, etc. Definitely no PGO shotguns, even a .410 has enough recoil to disturb a new shooter.
     
  6. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

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    First off, 65 is NOT elderly, I know many a person that age and older that are in better shape than most 20 year olds - as in running marathons and swimming a lot of laps daily. The point is, why are you assuming he is only capable of using a 410 or 38 revolver?

    And I will disagree with most folks here - a revolver takes a LOT of practice to be proficient with and not have the trigger pulling the gun off the mark - in this scenario, being limited to only those two choices, get the 410 and some buckshot. I suspect, however, unless he is infirmed in a very bad way, that a 20 or 12 would be a better alternatives with a lot more choices in ammo to choose from
     
  7. 303tom

    303tom member

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    Maybe a judge would be better ?
     
  8. mooner

    mooner Member

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    I am looking at a .410 youth for my 70 yr old mother in law as well. She is in decent shape, but I am anticipating her to be quite adverse to recoil. We will do a little testing with a few other firearms before going this route.

    I know a 20 gauge would be better, but some of the testing I have seen with the judge .410 rounds look to be actually pretty good. Out of a longer barrel, no doubt they would be even better.

    A pump shotgun is much easier for a non-gun person to approach. Agreed about the revolver being tougher to master. Easy to just keep pulling the trigger, tougher to master the long DA pull and hit something.
     
  9. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf member

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    I swear I'm gonna download a pump racking ringtone. Who needs a shotgun anyway? lol

    To OP.. I'd suggest a good K frame with good grips.. 2-4" loaded with standard pressure hard cast lead SWC's.
    Bring him out shooting as often as you can and encourage him to dryfire (double action) the snot out of it.
     
  10. Pfletch83

    Pfletch83 member

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    I called mine the DFG MK-1

    Nice Mark-1 you have there Toivo.

    [​IMG]

    Also if you do buy the 50455 Model for the barrel,you can use said 50455 for spare parts (if something does break)
     
  11. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    65? Elderly?
    I resemble that remark!

    +1 to No on a pistol grip shotgun.

    There are very few weapons made that are easier for a BG to grab and take away from you, then shoot or beat you to death with it.

    A stock serves several proposes, not the least of which is being able to lock it against your body and prevent the gun from being twisted out of your hands easily.

    But the bottom line is, if the guy has no interest in learning to use a gun, and practicing with it often enough to at least be safe?

    He would be better armed and less risk to himself and his neighbors with an Industrial size can of Pepper Spray!

    rc
     
  12. wyohome

    wyohome Member

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  13. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf member

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    ^
    True. There are many 85 year (not that you are!) old gentlemen that can outdo a scalded monkey in many empirical/quantifiable measurements.

    Don't shortshrift grandma either. You might be surprised and or laughed at.

    Age is a relative thing.. I know 30-40 year old milksops that.. nevermind.
     
  14. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

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    My point in bringing it up is that i shoot with folks that age and older - we routinely shoot 200 rounds at sporting clays in a day, many of those elderly folks hoist a 9# K-80 to do it.
    ;)
     
  15. bubba in ca

    bubba in ca Member

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    Given the same amount of training, I suspect one has at least twice the likelyhood of hitting the perp with a long gun rather than a handgun.

    410 buck is far better than most handgun ammo.

    If he is not mechanically inclined and not willing to go for significant training, a double barrel or even a single shot might be a better choice.

    If at all possible have him try a 20 guage with 2 1/2 inch buck first and try to see if he can handle the complexity of a pump.

    Not picking on the guy or his age, but you said he may never have touched a gun before.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2012
  16. bubba in ca

    bubba in ca Member

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    Oh , yeah--pistol grip only shotguns are for showing off to your friends and throwing away the advantage of the 4 point hold that long guns have. Youth stock, as somebody mentioned above, is very handy in close quarters.
     
  17. gp911

    gp911 Member

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    Also the regular 5-pellet 3" 000 buck loads can do a lot of damage. I've tested them through all sorts of target media and they tend to penetrate well without spreading much at all. Imagine 5 .36 caliber lead balls hitting at once in about a 3 inch group. Nasty stuff!
     
  18. Dave McCracken

    Dave McCracken Moderator In Memoriam

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    410 pump shotguns are adequate defensive tools when employed by Shotgunners.

    ALL defensive tools need to be used until proficiency under all conditions is a given.

    Take your 65 year old to the range. Let him try out sundry arms and see what he likes best.

    A midframe revolver with proper ammo is an excellent choice for many people, but there's no one size fits all answer here.

    As for PGOs, they are nigh useless in the real world. With long and ardous practice, some small proficiency can be gained, but the same effort with a real shotgun will reap dividends....
     
  19. T Slothrop

    T Slothrop Member

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    The esteemed Mr. Fuller's comment needs no amplification from the likes of me. However I have some physical issues that render me extremely sensitive to recoil, and I own both a Mossberg .410 pump and a Hi-Point carbine in .45. In my opinion, the Hi-Point offers a simpler manual of arms and less recoil than the shotgun. I originally bought the .410 specifically with home defense in mind, but now my "go-to" firearm is always the Hi-Point. Plus the Hi-Point can be had new in box for $300 or so.

    It's a hard to beat combination of ease of use, light (essentially non-existent) recoil, and value.
     
  20. Pfletch83

    Pfletch83 member

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    The carbine is a nice choice for longer range defensive work.

    But the .410 is still a shotgun and with '000' buck in either 2-1/2 or 3- inch will be throwing more pellets at the target in the same general target area.

    The carbine would be better used at 80-100 yards.
     
  21. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    The OP said the guy lives in an apartment.
    For a non-shooter who "is definitely not a gun guy".

    I still think pepper spray is the safest thing for him, and his neighbors.

    rc
     
  22. husker

    husker Member

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  23. SHR970

    SHR970 Member

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    If he isn't going to spend any amount of time to learn how to use a gun half decently he should probably avoid having one. That said, if he is intent on getting one he should try out several platforms to see what he feels comfortable with.

    Just my $.05 worth based on him not practicing much:

    Taurus Judge...bad idea. Buckshot velocity out of those is under 800 fps, lots of muzzle flash.

    Pump shotgun....not such a good idea. He'll probably short stroke it if he needs it.

    SxS with [strike]dual[/strike] internal hammers.....close to full proof. Bet he forgets to disengage the automatic safety though.

    Pistol caliber semi automatic carbine.....a decent choice. Simple, easy to operate, not much recoil. I'll still bet he forgets to disengage the safety.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2012
  24. 6x6pinz

    6x6pinz Member

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    New user, not much training, no intention of spending time learning to be comfortable pretty much equals a 38spl revolver DAO. just pull the trigger till it goes click. You are not talking distances in an apartment situation where being able to hit a target at 50' is important, more like 15' max.
     
  25. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Hammer doubles do not have automatic safeties.

    Worst that could happen is, he forgets he has to cock them to shoot it.

    Or un-cock them if he doesn't shoot it, and blows two holes in the neighbors wall.

    rc
     
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