Lookin seriously kewl is a purpose. Here's hoping it doesn't end up a pawn in a Tor moreLA whim, like Striker and Streetsweeper et. al.DPris, but don't you know this gun has no porpoise???
Mossberg Shockwave
- Thread starter DPris
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wally
Member
Its simply a "firearm" and you need to be 21 to buy one. Its explained in this American Rifleman review article:
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/3/31/tested-mossberg-590-shockwave/
IF you buy one, make changes to it (other than sights) at your peril!
When I first saw one I assumed it was a "pistol" and had a bit of rifling like the Taurus Judge, but its a smooth-bore.
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/3/31/tested-mossberg-590-shockwave/
IF you buy one, make changes to it (other than sights) at your peril!
When I first saw one I assumed it was a "pistol" and had a bit of rifling like the Taurus Judge, but its a smooth-bore.
The article says you only need to be 18.
wally
Member
I'm not a Philadelphia Gun Lawyer, but I believe this is an error in the article. Like with buying a stripped lower which is an "other" you must be 21. The dealer I saw one at sells a lot of suppressors, factory SBRs and machine guns -- his tag on the Shockwave said "not an NFA item, but must be 21 to purchase". There was no such tag on the "normal" Mossberg 18" pistol grip shotgun sitting next to it. Its possible its a quirk in Texas Law, but I doubt it. That is why initially I thought it was classified as a "pistol" and must have had some rifling like the Taurus Judge. His price was $50 over MSRP so I doubt he'd restrict any possible sales unnecessarily
Carl N. Brown
Member
Question: modern smokeless powder 12ga ammo is supposed to reach maximum pressure at 18" barrel.*
What is the muzzle blast of the 14" barrel like compared to the typical 18.5" barrel?
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* No, I did not read that on the internet. Some random guy at the barber shop said so, so it must be true.
What is the muzzle blast of the 14" barrel like compared to the typical 18.5" barrel?
________________
* No, I did not read that on the internet. Some random guy at the barber shop said so, so it must be true.
I'm almost positive (IANAL, though) that this is illegal under state law in Texas. Not an issue for me because while it'd be cool to have one, and I do think it would make a fast reactive weapon for home defense, (most home invasions around here are done by packs of guys), I am spending my firearms budget on training courses for the next couple years.I'm not a Philadelphia Gun Lawyer, but I believe this is an error in the article. Like with buying a stripped lower which is an "other" you must be 21. The dealer I saw one at sells a lot of suppressors, factory SBRs and machine guns -- his tag on the Shockwave said "not an NFA item, but must be 21 to purchase". There was no such tag on the "normal" Mossberg 18" pistol grip shotgun sitting next to it. Its possible its a quirk in Texas Law, but I doubt it. That is why initially I thought it was classified as a "pistol" and must have had some rifling like the Taurus Judge. His price was $50 over MSRP so I doubt he'd restrict any possible sales unnecessarily
Still, it would be fun....
Acera
Member
Can't speak to a 14 inch barrel, but 20 gauge out of a 10.5 inch barrel is not that bad or overly noticeable. Can't think that 4.5 inches difference would matter much.
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wally
Member
On what do you base this? I saw it at a gun show in Houston, the dealer is one of the largest gun sellers and oldest NFA vendors (I believe only Silencer Shop transfers more suppressors in Texas than he does), and he's based out of the Dallas area. I don't see how he'd be offering something for sale that was illegal in any way -- its a well established business with way too much to lose.
I'll try to find a link to the law (I don't have time right now) but it was a state law, not federal. Hey, I'd love to be wrong on this; I'm in Houston too.
So are the Utah folks saying it is prohibited by Utah law? What are they citing to for that position?
UCA 76-10-501 (10) defines a short barreled shotgun as follows: "Short barreled shotgun" or "short barreled rifle" means a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of fewer than 18 inches in length, or in the case of a rifle, having a barrel or barrels of fewer than 16 inches in length, or a dangerous weapon made from a rifle or shotgun by alteration, modification, or otherwise, if the weapon as modified has an overall length of fewer than 26 inches.
This is not verbatim but is very very close to the language of the Federal definition in USC 18 921(a)(6) The term “short-barreled shotgun” means a shotgun having one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length and any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration, modification or otherwise) if such a weapon as modified has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.
The shockwave definitely does not meet the Utah code definition of handgun:
"Handgun" means a pistol, revolver, or other firearm of any description, loaded or unloaded, from which a shot, bullet, or other missile can be discharged, the length of which, not including any revolving, detachable, or magazine breech, does not exceed 12 inches.
What is truly strange about all of this is that I cannot see a provision in Utah Code that makes simply possessing an SBS or transfering an SBS a state crime.
There is a prohibition on transferring an SBS to a minor "Any person who transfers in violation of applicable state or federal law a short barreled rifle, short barreled shotgun, or fully automatic weapon to a minor is guilty of a third degree felony." 76-10-509.5
Certain restrictions on possessing an SBS at a school 76-10-505.5. (subject to various exceptions)
Carrying concealed an illegally possessed SBS 76-10-504(3) (seemingly this would be illegally possessed if you were a restricted person or if it violated federal law.
A prohibition subject to what is allowed by Federal law of a minor possessing an SBS 76-10-509.4. Prohibition of possession of certain weapons by minors.
What exactly are they pointing to in order to say it is illegal to transfer it or for someone to possess it?
UCA 76-10-501 (10) defines a short barreled shotgun as follows: "Short barreled shotgun" or "short barreled rifle" means a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of fewer than 18 inches in length, or in the case of a rifle, having a barrel or barrels of fewer than 16 inches in length, or a dangerous weapon made from a rifle or shotgun by alteration, modification, or otherwise, if the weapon as modified has an overall length of fewer than 26 inches.
This is not verbatim but is very very close to the language of the Federal definition in USC 18 921(a)(6) The term “short-barreled shotgun” means a shotgun having one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length and any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration, modification or otherwise) if such a weapon as modified has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.
The shockwave definitely does not meet the Utah code definition of handgun:
"Handgun" means a pistol, revolver, or other firearm of any description, loaded or unloaded, from which a shot, bullet, or other missile can be discharged, the length of which, not including any revolving, detachable, or magazine breech, does not exceed 12 inches.
What is truly strange about all of this is that I cannot see a provision in Utah Code that makes simply possessing an SBS or transfering an SBS a state crime.
There is a prohibition on transferring an SBS to a minor "Any person who transfers in violation of applicable state or federal law a short barreled rifle, short barreled shotgun, or fully automatic weapon to a minor is guilty of a third degree felony." 76-10-509.5
Certain restrictions on possessing an SBS at a school 76-10-505.5. (subject to various exceptions)
Carrying concealed an illegally possessed SBS 76-10-504(3) (seemingly this would be illegally possessed if you were a restricted person or if it violated federal law.
A prohibition subject to what is allowed by Federal law of a minor possessing an SBS 76-10-509.4. Prohibition of possession of certain weapons by minors.
What exactly are they pointing to in order to say it is illegal to transfer it or for someone to possess it?
NoirFan
Member
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Can someone explain to me the excitement around this shotgun? As far back as I can remember I've always been told that pistol grip shotguns weren't good for very much. The Shockwave just seems to be a standard pistol grip pump with a few more inches cut off the barrel. How is this any better than a pawnshop M500 with a pistol grip?
Panzerschwein
member
It's sort of a big "forget you" to the BATFE. That's why people like it.
rbernie
Contributing Member
My FLGS in the north Dallas area is telling me that Mossberg has provided them with guidance indicating that the Shockwave is not legal under Texas law, and any units that were previously transferred into Texas will need to be transferred out of Texas. I am asking to see if that correspondence can be publicly shared.
wally
Member
Bummer. I thought they were pretty neat!
Panzerschwein
member
Texas really doesn't have the best gun laws.
Lycidas Janwor
Member
I want one...
The shockwave (and similar designs) still aren't good for much. They are not general purpose weapons. They aren't general purpose shotguns. They are niche guns. That niche is being relatively small and offering unmatched terminal ballistics. The effects of a single round of #1 buckshot is impressive. The gun is a very close range weapon.
There is an advantage to the birds head grip versus a more vertical style of grip on some PGO shotguns. The other advantage vis a vis a regular gun is what you noted 4" less of barrel. As noted above getting that size without a tax stamp and a long wait.
I can see some niches for it. For standard home defense I think it still takes a back seat to a stocked 18" gun or an SBS. In my opinion the smaller size of the shockwave doesn't offer any real advantage in that role. A stocked gun is still easier to use, allows for faster follow ups, is much easier to shoot 3" shells out of (which gains one 8 additional pellets). My belief is that across the room distances one can do good work with either but unless one needs the compact size there isn't much reason to use something like the shockwave.
In sum it's not worthless, it is, however, very niche. That niche is probably something that most people don't genuinely have much use for.
There is also the gee wiz, action movie cool, factor to the gun as well. People sometimes just like to buy and shoot fun or interesting guns or things they think are cool. This is after all much more useful than a mares leg IMHO.
Legionnaire
Contributing Member
Looking forward to some range reports ...
Acera
Member
Got the same bad news from Collectors Firearms in Houston today. They said that their lawyers opinion is that it is illegal under Texas law. Texas Law Shield is also advising Texans to stay away from it.
Me thinks we need to get Mossberg on the phone with the Texas AG for a determination letter and/or a fix.
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Me thinks we need to get Mossberg on the phone with the Texas AG for a determination letter and/or a fix.
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Acera
Member
Did you watch the Clint Smith video earlier in this thread?? Seems pretty good for what it is designed for and that is all some need.
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Did you read the whole rest of my post?! Yeah, it's a niche gun and unmatched perhaps in that niche, but it is a small niche. What in Mr. Smith's video, or even using your own experience and cognative powers, is in discord with that assessment?
Acera
Member
My cognitive (note how I spelled it correctly) powers tell me that home defense is not a niche market, and not a small market. Get out of the 'gun guy' box and think about a significant portion of our society that does not own a single firearm, and may determine they need one. They don't want to spend a lot of money, go hunt, shoot clays, or even shot it very much. A moderate amount of training and this weapon could be ideally suited for them. Also, don't limit it to a house, think about trailers and apartments as well.
(And yes, I read the rest of your post. I think I summed it up pretty well in my post.)
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