Most reliable long gun and handgun for canoe/kayak journey?

[Glamdring]

What type of long arm and handgun would be most likely to function when exposed to water, mud, etc?

For handgun I would think Glock or 1911.

For long gun I'm not sure. Would a pump 12 gauge be better or worse than a '98 Mauser? How would a lever gun or single stack up?

 

[J Miller]

I was going to be sarcastic and say " a dry one".

I like the idea of a trip like you describe, but I don't know of any type of firearm that works well wet and full of sand and mud. I'm sure some are better than others, but the cleaner and drier the better.

Ammo is another consideration. Constant moisture will have a degenerative effect on it. Especially shot gun ammo. I think the folded crimp would be more prone to moisture leakage than a well assembled centerfire round.

That said, for a trip like you describe, I would take a .45Colt Caliber revolver, and levergun.

Lever actions and (in my preference single action) revolvers are simple, and easy to take care of. There is several good +P hunting loads available for the .45 Colt. These do not have the recoil or blast of the larger calibers.

I have also read about water proof plastic covers for guns. I would get some of those to protect those not on my person or in use.
Ammo, especially jacketed bullet ammo can be sealed when being loaded. This is not hard and can go a long way to keeping you powder dry.

 

[DonP]

1911 and lever gun

I do a lot of canoeing and some of it where the bears and mooses roam.

(Side note: don't take anything if you're going to Canada, way too much of a hassle and if they catch you with any kind of handgun you'll be the example they make of another Gun Crazy American.)

That being said, I usually take my 1911 with the old flap style military holster (avoids snags when portaging)and the web gear belt is handier than you might think for portaging. For the long gun I use an old Marlin lever action 30-30 that has been rode hard and put up wet a number of times. Simple, easy to clean and reliable to a fault.

Start with the assumption that however you pack it, it will get wet and need to be checked out and cleaned regularly. One of my friends kept his Winchester in a "water tight" case and after four days took it out and it was covered with light rust on the barrel. Yikes!

Canoes have a tendency to get wet and stay wet inside, but you already know that probably.

Have fun, stay safe and make a lot of noise on the portages near the blueberry and raspberry bushes.

Don P.

 

[MrKandiyohi]

J Miller has a good idea with 2 firearms using the same ammo. You could also go with .44 Magnum in pistol and levergun.

If you're concerned about rust, look at stainless steel.

I think I'd opt for a revolver and shotgun pair. A stainless steel S&W 686 or 66 would handle many situations. You could have any combination of rounds with FMJ, HP, or shotload.

For the shotgun, look at a Remington 870 Marine Magnum. It's a 12ga stainless steel shotgun.
http://www.remington.com/firearms/shotguns/870mrmag.htm

Anything that requires the range of a rifle is something that isn't a problem at that second. The 6+1 capacity which can hold bird shot, buck or slug would fit many needs. Shotgun flare rounds are another option.

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

I've done some duck hunting out of a canoe with a friend. I take my Citori and he takes an old family heirloom Winchester 1897. We tie a piece of heavy fishing line and a bobber to each gun.

He learned this trick the hard way. As you know, there is a (pretty good) chance of tipping a canoe over. He dumped his one January and lost his 1897. Had to wait for spring and pay a diver to find it for him.

I suppose you could just tie the guns to the canoe, but then if (when) you went over, you'd be dragging the gun along the river bottom.

 

[adobewalls]

Conoeing sounds fun. I have been waiting for my son to get old enough to take him on a trip down one of the larger rivers here in Texas - he's old enough this year.

What I would recommend, and of course it depends on where you are and what you want to protect against or hunt while you are conoeing:

For the Pistol: Stainless Steel S&W or Ruger revolver in .357, .41, .44 mags or 45 Long Colt (depending on where you are conoeing). For my trip, I'll probably take a the .357 with full .357 loads and lots of .38's.

For the Rifle: Marlin or Winchester Lever action in 30-30 or the mini 14 (stainless) if you are not in fear of big hairy creatures with big teeth and nasty dispositions. If you intend to hunt or are in fear of meeting that big hairy creature with big teeth then a Bolt Action (such as Ruger, Remington or Winchester) in just about anything that is .27 caliber or larger (and including an ample powder charge). There are some nice stainless models out there. We are not supposed to have pumas running around our river bottoms in this part of Texas, so I will probably choose to go with the 30-30 saddle gun.

Use the rifle whenever you can and the pistol only when you need to get to the rifle.

Of course you can never go wrong taking a shotgun - just take a mixture of shot shells (small game, buck and slugs.) My preference would be a remington, mossberg or winchester pump.

I'll table an idea for a couple of auxilliaries: a .22 pistol and a .22 rifle - just for fun and plinking if the opportunity arises.

 

[Colt46]

Glamdring- I hear you

I've got a folding Kayak that is itching for a two week paddle trip. For a rifle I've bought it a Marlin Papoose and have a .45 hardchromed Bisley as companion pieces. Now all I need is a great destination and some willing companions. Out west there aren't too many places big enough and weapon freindly enough that I'm aware of. Great Slave lake in Canada beckons, but I doubt if firearms will be welcomed. Saltwater or fresh? Big difference in amount and speed of corrosion. I'd get a drysack or bag that would keep your longrifle dry and try to keep a stainless, large bore revolver in the cockpit with me.

 

[Crimper-D]

For a long gun I'd suggest...

A synthetic stocked stainless Ruger Mini-30 or a Mini-14.
Handgun? anything in stainless or polymer, rimfire would be my choice, preferably a revolver, but that's just _my_ 'druthers'

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

A 12 gauge pump in a dry bag, with ammo also in a dry bag.


a .44 mag stainless revolver.

 

[sm]

Have used:
1911 with lanyard and flap holster
model 94 in 30-30 iron sights
model 12's and 870's
model 70 in '06. iron sights

FWIW the revos(smith and rugers) my friends carried quit first day. sand, mud, muck...we all used either flap, or shoulder holsters...shoulder not good for packs and portaging. 1911(once again) proved most reliable, easiest to maintain in the field (humm heard that before somewhere).

 

[BallisticTip]

One of these in a dry bag.

 

[jsalcedo]

Ruger blackhawk in .44 mag and a winchester 94 in .44mag

I've used this combo on occasion and have no complaints on reliability.

As a side note the model 94 I own has a 16 inch barrel and
a saddle ring. Its actually shorter than the youth rifles I own
which makes it very handy.


I set up 2 boxes of old 40 each identical spiral notebooks and fired into each using a 6 inch revolver in .44mag and the 16inch barreled winchester .44mag carbine.

The load was a 240 grain keith style lead semi wadcutter over 16.6grains of alliant Blue dot


The revolver reliably penetrated 16 notebooks every time

The rifle penetrated 22 notebooks every time.

 

[Horsesense]

SKS and a SS Ruger Mark 2 .22 in for plinking. Use to do lots of white-water and getting em wet, sandy etc is no bigey, just tie them to something.

Ps: if you loose them your not out that much.

 

[Glamdring]

Several years ago I read Jeff Cooper's story The Rio Balsas. In 1962 Jeff Cooper with a couple of companions kayaked down a portion of this river. Cooper had 1911 in 38 Super, Rem Model 11 (that rode on the deck of his kayak), and a Savage 99 in 250-3000 that was carried inside kayak in waterproof case.

I have also read Lewis & Clarks journeys. Was impressed with the preparation that Lewis & Clark made. Sealing gunpowder inside lead, gave watertight seal and also provided lead for bullet in same package as powder.

I have been interested for a long time in what some people call historical trekking. Where you travel a path (or similar path) to some historical figure or group using same type of equipment they would have used. You learn things that way that can't be learned from reading or just thinking about the events.

I was an Anthropology major in college, and some Anthropologists actually used similar techniques to learn more about people and their lifestyles where written records don't exist. Or where written records don't describe actual process for obtaining a finished product (I know one person who has experimented with blacksmithing trying to accomplish things we know they did in the 1700's but we don't know HOW they did it with their technology).

I hope to travel many parts of the path Lewis and Clark did on their journey. I may or may not do it with period gear (I LIKE gor tex , but would prefer to use guns from British/European tradition. The only significant problem with guns that I have noticed Lewis & Clark having involved Grizzly Bears. I think guns and loads designed for Africa would make a better choice for grizzlies (not that I would expect a problem with them now, the idea is to visualize dealing with the problem they faced with tools they could have used).

I also want to kayak from near the beginning of a large river in Alaska (as far up as you can start using kayak) and travel downstream to the end. I will almost certainly have to do that in stages at different times (start where finished last trip).

So as intermediate goal (ie training) I plan to start doing more canoeing and kayaking, including the not so fun part of portaging.

As part of that I am thinking about starting to hunt using a canoe as main mode of trasportation for hunting instead of a car (not shooting from the canoe, but using it for getting to area, transporting game, etc). And using guns and other gear that I would use on such a trip as much as possible.

***

BTW when doing historical trekking it is often impossible to hunt big game legally. But you can often still hunt small game and/or birds and fish legally. One reason why I like the idea of auxilary cartridges and such that allow use of 22 rimfires in a regular centerfire.