Most voluminous powder suitable for 45acp?

[arizona_cards_11]

Hi all -- I was at the range earlier today with a friend and witnessed a double charge. The magazine blew out of the bottom of the frame, the trigger was cracked, and the extractor snapped. Fortunately, no one was seriously injured.

This was startling, to say the least, and has made me re-evaluate my own reloading practices.

I reload mostly 45acp on a progressive and am trying to find the most voluminous, suitable powder available to prevent any sort of double charge.

Does anyone have a chart that I could reference or first hand experience? I've used primarily Bullseye/CFE/Titegroup up to this point, but would like to make the switch.

Thanks.

 

[jwrowland77]

Do you have a RCBS Lockout Die or a Hornady Powder Cop Die? You could use one of those and keep using the powder you have been. I have the Hornady Powder Cop and it works great. Plus I also look in the case. It's habit. Lol

Universal or Unique would fill the case more if you really want to change powders.


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[springer99]

Check your reloading manuals. Generally, the recommended loads using the largest powder charges will also fill the cases the most. Also true of powders with a slower burn rate. Not always, but usually so.

Not sure if I've ever seen a chart on this, but the closest I've come to is the Lee reloading manual. Their load data also shows the "cc" volume of charges, which corresponds to their dippers. The loads using the larger cc dippers obviously will fill the cases better.

 

[Dudedog]

Promo (Red Dot) works and is quite "Fluffy"
If you look at the VMD chart on Lees site it can give you an idea.
(some powder manafactures show it as well)
Larger VMD # takes up more space.

For example I have calculated Promo to be about .14-fluffy
at the other end you have Titegroup at about .084, CFE-P at about .075-dense
HP38/231 (my favorite .45 powder) runs about .092,
AA #2 about .106, Universal about .1099

So 4gr of Promo would take up about .56cc, 4gr of CFE-P would take up about .3cc, 4gr of Universal about .43cc (NOTE: just using 4gr as and example, not suggesting 4gr of these powders)

VMD*gr=cc

 

[arizona_cards_11]

Do you have a RCBS Lockout Die or a Hornady Powder Cop Die? You could use one of those and keep using the powder you have been. I have the Hornady Powder Cop and it works great. Plus I also look in the case. It's habit. Lol

Universal or Unique would fill the case more if you really want to change powders.


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I do have the RCBS Lockout die and that would be my first solution if I had the space for another die. Currently, I'm seating and crimping at separate stages, so perhaps I could grab a crimp seater die instead.

On a side note -- my progressive is powered by a stepper motor. Any idea how the RCBS lockout mechanism would handle the force? It's configured with a digital clutch, but sometimes I need to set it pretty high to resize.

Thanks to everyone for the quick responses.

 

[jwrowland77]

Oooo, I have no idea.

I seat and crimp in same step, that way I can use my powder cop. It's pretty easy to setup to seat and crimp in same step


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[Rule3]

Trail Boss if you want to pay more for less.

A double charge is a double charge, most any acceptable powder for 45 will fit a double in the case. You are not going to prevent a double by switching powder. What do you use now?

 

[ants]

I know it rattled you, Arizona-cards-11.


But this is the time to get rational and smart, not the time to overreact.

Like they said above, you look into ever case before seating bullet. THAT is the best solution. Not a new powder.


Remember, no powder is just as hazardous as double charge.
If you use a fluffier powder, it won't prevent a squib due to no powder.


Your eyeballs don't have to detect plus-or-minus 1/10 grain.
They only have to detect Zero powder or x2 powder.


Learn to use your Eyeball. It works!!!

 

[arizona_cards_11]

Trail Boss if you want to pay more for less.

A double charge is a double charge, most any acceptable powder for 45 will fit a double in the case. You are not going to prevent a double by switching powder. What do you use now?

I'm currently using CFE-Pistol, but have used mostly Titegroup and Bullseye in the past.

I realize that it would be difficult for me to find an acceptable powder that would overflow on a double charge -- and with the press being motorized, I'm not sure I could even visually catch a double charge. I'm probably better off using a powder check die and combining the seating/crimping processes.

 

[arizona_cards_11]

I know it rattled you, Arizona-cards-11.


But this is the time to get rational and smart, not the time to overreact.

Like they said above, you look into ever case before seating bullet. THAT is the best solution. Not a new powder.


Remember, no powder is just as hazardous as double charge.
If you use a fluffier powder, it won't prevent a squib due to no powder.


Your eyeballs don't have to detect plus-or-minus 1/10 grain.
They only have to detect Zero powder or x2 powder.


Learn to use your Eyeball. It works!!!

Thanks ants - I appreciate the advice. Sometimes there's no easy way around using your eyes!

 

[ColoradoShooter77]

I'd recommend Unique.

 

[Reloadron]

All powder has a VMD (Volume Metric Density) so you could look up the VMD for all the popular .45 ACP powders like:

Titegroup = .08475
Bullseye = .10640
Unique = .10920

VMD Factor * Charge in Grains = Volume expressed in CC

That said I do not see using a less dense (more volume) powder as a solution to much of anything, especially if that powder doesn't shoot well.

This was startling, to say the least, and has made me re-evaluate my own reloading practices.

I reload mostly 45acp on a progressive and am trying to find the most voluminous, suitable powder available to prevent any sort of double charge.

Yes, startling to say the least and while my heart goes out to the shooter ultimately the root cause of a double charge is someone not paying attention to detail, just a moment of being inattentive like driving and looking down at a text on your cell phone. While they make powder cops and other cool gizmos powder charging requires ones full attention. So ultimately who is at fault for the gun blowing up? Check and check your loads as you apparently have been doing and you will be fine. Just develop and use good safe loading practices.

Ron

 

[Rule3]

Yes, startling to say the least and while my heart goes out to the shooter ultimately the root cause of a double charge is someone not paying attention to detail, just a moment of being inattentive like driving and looking down at a text on your cell phone. While they make powder cops and other cool gizmos powder charging requires ones full attention. So ultimately who is at fault for the gun blowing up? Check and check your loads as you apparently have been doing and you will be fine. Just develop and use good safe loading practices.

Ron

and there you have it summed up. Kinda like a safety on a gun. The main safety is the person using it.

For the OP

I do have to ask, do you know what powder was used in the Kboom? I hope it wasn't Tite Group.

 

[BigBore45]

Blue dot and trail boss. Would be it.

 

[Schwing]

While you certainly can double charge with unique, it would be almost impossible to miss if you are looking at each case.

Like others, I do recommend either a powder check or lockout die as well. Looking into each case is the only 100% save method I know of.

 

[RPegram]

Green dot was a case filler for me. A friend gave me an old keg and I played around with it some.

 

[GRIZ22]

I've used Unique in 45 ACP for years. I found a load for a 200 SWC which accounts for 95% of my 45 loading.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I won't be moving off the powder I like best for any load because of fear of a double charge. Find a way to catch it on the outside chance you do double charge a case. Why build a lesser quality ammo because of fear?

 

[Steelworker]

What press are using?

 

[noylj]

I have used TrailBoss successfully for .45 Auto.
Red Dot and Unique are fluffy. Red Dot is probably the #2 or #3 most accurate powder for .45 Auto.
That double charge was caused by an inattentive reloader. It may have been from short-stroking the press (charging the case twice) or using a 550 (and NOT remembering to index manually and charging the case twice) or something else the reloader did not do. The measure did not just decide to drop a double charge--it had to have had that case enter it twice.
The thing is, if you always look in the case and inspect the charge before putting a bullet on the case, you will never load a double charge.
If you never short-stroke a press when you have a problem but, rather, take ALL cases off the press immediately, find and fix the problem and then work the cases back in (and inspect or dispose of the just charged case), you won't have a double charge.
And, of course, as mentioned, if you run an RCBS Lock-Out die or Dillon Powder Check die, you won't have a double charge.
For me, I found that it was a lot easier when loading rifle rounds to use a bench-mounted powder measure, immediately inspect the charge in the case (with a light), and immediately seat the bullet. Using a loading tray was NOT a safer option for me (and I still read about folks who consider the loading tray the safest and then they tell the stories of the cases they double charged or missed). If you are looking at 50-100 things, you can miss one. If you are looking at ONE thing, you can't miss it.

 

[MEHavey]

In order of volume:
All produce a
- Standard 800fps/230grRN
- Under SAAMI pressure
- 50% or more fill (available volume under the bullet)
- 85-100% burn

Vihtavuori N32C Tin Star
Alliant HERCO
Accurate Solo 1250
Hodgdon Clays
Alliant RED DOT
Vihtavuori N340
Alliant UNIQUE
Alliant GREEN DOT
Accurate Solo 1000
Accurate Nitro 100
Vihtavuori N330
Vihtavuori N320
Hodgdon Universal
Winchester 231
Hodgdon HP38
Winchester 540
Accurate No.2
Ramshot Zip
Hodgdon TiteGroup

 

[Walkalong]

Nice list.

I used nothing but W-231 for years and years. One of the good things about it, as MEHavey has pointed out, is that it has 50% or better fill rate, but it is also very light colored, so a double charge is very easy to see. Very obvious. And of course the best thing was it worked great.

See every powder charge you seat a bullet over. Every single one. No distractions at the bench. If you have to stop for some reason, when you get started again back up and verify everything.

 

[kcofohio]

WST does a pretty good job of filling out the case. VMD= 0.1205

 

[FROGO207]

If you can find the cash for that press then getting an old laptop, small USB camera, and good light should be a reasonable addition as well. Set it up to monitor the dropped charge so you can easily view it before seating the bullet. This is the answer for going at a faster rate and being sure of your charge. What you are looking for as stated above in another post is no propellant or a double charge and you can verify this easily with a glance at the computer monitor before you pull the handle the next time. One or two of the users on here have assembled this system and are quite satisfied with their setup.

 

[Walkalong]

WST does a pretty good job of filling out the case

A pound of WST nearly fills the Hodgdon jug to the top. It's very bulky. Fast though, which keeps charge weights down. Good stuff.