Titegroup powder in 9mm - Too hot?
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rfwobbly
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The novices I run across often buy Tite Group because they heard that some huge percentage of professional shooters use it. What they fail to think about is that....
1) Pro shooters shoot 8,000+ rounds a year, so they're also professional reloaders. Their reloading process is well defined, down to the knity-gritty.
2) When you reload that many rounds you're not fooling around with some beginner reloading outfit. No sir, you've got some very professional reloading equipment set up in a dedicated, professional grade, reloading area.
3) And the pro is using all name brand components.
I have 30 or so powders to use, but TG isn't one of them for a reason.
I use Titegroup & Longshot for 147, Bullseye & Power Pistol for 115/124; all coated bullets. Seems the Longshot works better for me at the heavier bullets, and Power Pistol for the lighter ones. Just my two cents worth- btw, W231 is one of the most versatile powders; HP38 is for all intents and purposes, the exact same powder. Go to the Hodgdon site and compare loads. Also, check some of the loads for 572- I actually wrote Hodgdon asking if the numbers were correct. Over 1200 fps for a 124 gn?
This is the key of course, and more critical in some applications than others.
thomas15
Member
More TG for the rest of us.
Very good response Pilot. It is interesting to me that there is a lot of the discussion here and elsewhere about the fantastic accuracy of (_________) inexpensive plastic powder measure and yet there seems to be a lot concern that it and/or the operator cannot actually hold to the claimed .1 grain load.
There is a book from the early 90s (I think) titled The Glock In Competition. Published before TG was released or made popular. Anyway, it goes into the alleged dangers of BE using the exact same language many use to describe TG today.
But to the question at hand, many like TG and many don't like TG. It is one of those things that you just try and see for yourself. It costs about $20.00 to find out. Personally I like it, used it successfully even as a beginner, extensively compared it to N320 and don't see much of a difference and I know a lot of very good shooters use it. That doesn't mean that everyone should use it or even like it. Love Hodgdon or hate Hodgdon, that company is the best when it comes to actually putting powder on the shelves at your store during times of scarcity. There has to be 25 or so acceptable pistol or shotgun powders that will work for 9mm, I don't understand the thinking that only 1 of those, generally the one that isn't available to purchase, is the best.
rfwobbly
Member
My response lacked the clarity I had hoped. Here's another try...
• I neither like nor dislike Titegroup. I don't use it, but I can only speak for me. Obviously, TG has a place in the world or it wouldn't still be for sale.
• What I'm not excited about is it being used as a first-time powder by novices. I believe the load window is too narrow (~0.4gr for 9mm) for a beginner, who may be using a beginner scale that's only accurate to 0.2gr. Or worse yet, relying on scoops !
• The outcome with any powder is bound to improve with experience and refinement of your personal reloading process. Most reloaders past 2000 rounds have usually finished making beginner mistakes.
• Maybe some of you know, but the OP never stated his personal level of reloading experience. No dis-credit to him, certainly, but until stated, I prefer to err on the side of caution.
• My take on TG is that the devil is in the details.
So, back to the original question: Is TG too hot for 9mm ? For me the answer is wholly dependent upon the user.
• I neither like nor dislike Titegroup. I don't use it, but I can only speak for me. Obviously, TG has a place in the world or it wouldn't still be for sale.
• What I'm not excited about is it being used as a first-time powder by novices. I believe the load window is too narrow (~0.4gr for 9mm) for a beginner, who may be using a beginner scale that's only accurate to 0.2gr. Or worse yet, relying on scoops !
• The outcome with any powder is bound to improve with experience and refinement of your personal reloading process. Most reloaders past 2000 rounds have usually finished making beginner mistakes.
• Maybe some of you know, but the OP never stated his personal level of reloading experience. No dis-credit to him, certainly, but until stated, I prefer to err on the side of caution.
• My take on TG is that the devil is in the details.
So, back to the original question: Is TG too hot for 9mm ? For me the answer is wholly dependent upon the user.
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torchroadster
Member
I've loaded and shot approximately 12 lbs. of Titegroup under 147gr 9mm using a mix of plated and coated bullets in the past two years. That's about 30,000 rounds. No complaints at all.
thomas15
Member
And may I ask what scale you are referring to?
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jell-dog
Member.
TG works fine as most have pointed out. Yes, you have to pay attention so you dont overcharge, and yes it burns hotter. But its widely available, and meters like water.
The spot where TG really excels is when you are shooting heavy bullets like 147's and want as minimal recoil as possible. The recoil is noticeably less with this setup. For lighter bullets like 115s and 124s, I use CFE-P. I also use TG for 45 and 230's, but use CFE-P for 200's and lower.
The spot where TG really excels is when you are shooting heavy bullets like 147's and want as minimal recoil as possible. The recoil is noticeably less with this setup. For lighter bullets like 115s and 124s, I use CFE-P. I also use TG for 45 and 230's, but use CFE-P for 200's and lower.
Doublehelix
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I have used TiteGroup, HP-38 and PowerPistol in the last few months to develop some loads for 124 gr. plated Berry's 9mm RN pills, and all 3 worked well, although my favorite of the 3 accuracy-wise was TG. I did not buy it to save money.
These are of course results achieved in *my* gun with *my* skill level behind the pistol (and behind the press handle). Those with more skill or a different pistol might get completely different results of course.
These are of course results achieved in *my* gun with *my* skill level behind the pistol (and behind the press handle). Those with more skill or a different pistol might get completely different results of course.
rskent
Member
That's what I use Tightgroup for. I use it in 9mm with 115 grain plated projectiles. It works great for me.
azrocks
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I'm brand-new to reloading, so I can't tell you anything much about Titegroup.
What I can say is that I had exactly the same concerns regarding high temps, so went with Power Pistol instead for my first reloading attempts. You can literally pick the cases up as soon as they hit the ground. I know this as I had my wife shagging brass for me at an indoor range the first time I shot my reloads, making sure she got my brass so I could inspect them! I think she caught a couple in the air
I do, however, believe the recoil impulse of the Titegroup might be better suited to getting back on target faster, but that may be a matter of personal preference.
PP metered as well as everyone says it does, fills up the case so double-charging isn't much of an issue, and produced great accuracy with 124g FMJs using a starting load of 5.6g powder (Win primers, ~1.140 OAL). Again though - the recoil impulse was more than I expected from what should have been a relatively light load. But I had only been shooting 115g factory ammo previously so don't know how much of a difference the bump in bullet weight made compared to the powder choice.
What I can say is that I had exactly the same concerns regarding high temps, so went with Power Pistol instead for my first reloading attempts. You can literally pick the cases up as soon as they hit the ground. I know this as I had my wife shagging brass for me at an indoor range the first time I shot my reloads, making sure she got my brass so I could inspect them! I think she caught a couple in the air
I do, however, believe the recoil impulse of the Titegroup might be better suited to getting back on target faster, but that may be a matter of personal preference.
PP metered as well as everyone says it does, fills up the case so double-charging isn't much of an issue, and produced great accuracy with 124g FMJs using a starting load of 5.6g powder (Win primers, ~1.140 OAL). Again though - the recoil impulse was more than I expected from what should have been a relatively light load. But I had only been shooting 115g factory ammo previously so don't know how much of a difference the bump in bullet weight made compared to the powder choice.
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thomas15
Member
I went to my bench, filled an empty 9mm case full of Titegroup and weighed the powder. It weighs 6.85 grains. For reference, a 147g bullet has a max load of 3.6g This means that a charge of 3.425 if double charged will fill the case to the top so at least in 9mm you would have to be very uninterested in what your doing to make this mistake.
PP is a good powder but it is not the best option for light target loads especially with heavy bullets as it is a slower burning powder. I also find that it is loud and has a flame ball but again its a good powder.
2ndtimer
Member
I started using Titegroup for cowboy action shooting years ago with cast lead bullets in a couple of Ruger Super Blackhawks because it was "position insensitive", in other words, small powder charges in large cases still provided consistent results compared to other powders that required a more full case to burn consistently. I found it worked well in that application, and also in light loads in.38 Spec. and .357 Mag with cast bullets. It is very economical, as well, since you can load over 1500 rounds of 9mm out of a pound of powder. I have loaded a couple thousand rounds for my 9mm pistols with both 115 gr and 124 gr jacketed bullets with no issues using a Dillon RL-550B. I have other powders as well and might switch to CFE Pistol, Power Pistol or Universal when my Titegroup runs out, but since I have 3 lbs left, it will be awhile.
It was certainly advertised that way, but when I tested it the results as far as velocity loss when the powder was forward away from the primer was average. It does seem to burn cleanly regardless of position.
I started reloading at the end of 2013 on a used Dillon 650. Since then I have used 16 pounds or more of Titegroup and use it exclusively for 9mm. I only load at the low end of the scale. First loads were with Xtreme 124gr.HP and 3.6gr. That is the load I found most accurate and controllable for my wife and me. I eventually went to Bayou 147gr. with 3 gr TG. The coated bullets take a little less than the plated . A year ago I bought a used Master Caster and 1000 pounds of processed wheel weights and now cast my own 147's and coat them with Hi-Tek. For competition I can get away with 2.8gr TG but load them at 3.0 for my wife since her grip is not as stiff as mine. Leading has not been a problem with the Hi-Tek shooting out of any of my several models of Glock pistols.
Some folks like it and some don't. I'm in the like camp.
Some folks like it and some don't. I'm in the like camp.
Like many others, I used Titegroup when powders were scarce and it was one of the few powders available in my area. I got introduced to a bunch of new powders because of this shortage and developed some good loads. I load mostly pistol. I use Titegroup for 9mm with 115gr cast bullets both plain and coated with good results. Will shoot what I have but will probably go back to my big four (Red Dot, Unique, Bullseye and W231/HP38). Been reloading for 50 plus years and I'm always open to new reloading components.
BigMacMI
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Guess if i hadn't read this i wouldn't have ever known TiteGroup was a problem. I asked a reputable reloading source locally, and for beginning he recommended HP38 and/or TG. Bought both. Have loads for both, plinking and higher velocity, and have not had a problem with either
Fine Figure of a Man
Member
Seems like Titegroup is the Glock of gun powders, a lot of people love to hate it.
Getting ready for an IDPA BUG gun match I pulled out my 9MM XDs and some previous loads to see which one I would use.
Boy, did I get a surprise. The most accurate at my 50 foot test were Speer 147 gr. TMJ loaded with 3.4 gr. of TiteGroup at 1.136 OAL. Better than my Hornady 115 gr. and Blue Bullet 125 gr. with Ramshot Silhouette. The 3.4 grains of TiteGroup was easy to powdercheck visually.
So, I guess I may have to revise my opinion of TiteGroup for 9MM.
Boy, did I get a surprise. The most accurate at my 50 foot test were Speer 147 gr. TMJ loaded with 3.4 gr. of TiteGroup at 1.136 OAL. Better than my Hornady 115 gr. and Blue Bullet 125 gr. with Ramshot Silhouette. The 3.4 grains of TiteGroup was easy to powdercheck visually.
So, I guess I may have to revise my opinion of TiteGroup for 9MM.
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