Movie Recommendation: The Alamo

Status
Not open for further replies.

glockten

Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2002
Messages
298
Saw it today; this one will definitely join the DVD collection.

The battle of San Jacinto is also featured, though without the depth given the main story.

Lots of flintlock action, and Billy Bob Thornton as David Crockett was outstanding. Great job of showing the man behind the myth.

This movie almost made me wish I was a Texan.:D
 
It didn't get good reviews here. I'm inclined to agree with what I've seen of it....Denis Quaid over acted IMHO.
 
Forgetting the politics, PC and personalities of the actors and the acting for a moment...how was it as a guns/war flick?

I can forgive a lot for a good period battle epic, like Samurai.

snakelogo.jpg
 
heres another review,

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=37909

Alamo movie filled with 'fairy tales'

Group says new film destroys memory of American heroes

Posted: April 6, 2004
10:30 p.m. Eastern

© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com
A new movie set to open this weekend entitled "The Alamo" is filled with revisionist history and political correctness, claims a pro-military nonprofit organization.

In a statement, Freedom Alliance slammed Michael Eisner and Walt Disney Pictures, the film's maker, for rewriting history in the movie, which is scheduled to open April 9.

"The movie reads more like a Disney fairy tale and promotes a politically correct revisionist agenda aimed at destroying a traditional American hero," said B. Forrest Clayton, a Freedom Alliance visiting fellow.

Clayton says he obtained a screenplay of the film and found it to be "full of inaccuracies." He says Davy Crockett is portrayed as a "frightened wanderer" who wanted to escape "over the wall" in the dark of night during the historic battle, but felt paralyzed and trapped by his own underserved heroic reputation.

An unofficial website for the film calls it "a tale of a handful of men who stood up for their passion and ideals against an overwhelming force.

"In the spring of 1836, in the face of insurmountable odds, fewer than 200 ordinary men who believed in the future of Texas held the fort for 13 days against thousands of Mexican soldiers led by dictator Gen. Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna."

Freedom Alliance says the film has Crockett captured, bound and executed on his knees after the battle was over, "even though the historical evidence shows that he was killed fighting, in the thick of combat, during the battle."

The group cites several historical witnesses who backed up the story of a heroic Crockett.

Said the group's statement: "The movie makers ignored these witnesses that corroborated Crockett's heroic death in combat and based his capture and execution in the film on a suspect portion of Jose Enrique De La Pena's supposed diary/memoir which handwriting expert Charles Hamilton proved was a forgery by John Laflin, aka John Lafitte, a prominent American forger of papers on American pirates and frontier heroes."

Disney also is criticized for portraying Gen. Sam Houston as a "venereal-diseased drunkard" and Col. William Barret Travis, commander of Texan forces at the Alamo, as a "deadbeat dad and serial adulterer."

In addition, says the group, Col. James Bowie, the Alamo defender famous for his knife-fighting skills, is portrayed as a land-swindling slave trader. The film reportedly has Crockett participating in a My Lai-style massacre in the Creek Indian War.

Freedom Alliance says in contrast, Manuel Castrillon, a Mexican general who attacked the Alamo, is portrayed as a "flawless, noble and brave hero."

"Heroes such as Davy Crockett must be vigorously defended by all patriotic Americans in the culture war. They represent Western culture. To sit back and allow them to be desecrated is an injustice to American students and a recipe for disaster for the future of the country," concluded Clayton.

A recent Variety article confirmed the film's perspective.

"'Alamo' is expected to deal with many of the historical complexities – including the Mexican point of view – that were glossed over in John Wayne's 1960 film," Variety reported. "Alamo heroes William Barret Travis' serial marital infidelities, Jim Bowie's slave trading and Davy Crockett's overall political incorrectness will also be addressed."

Richard Bruce Winders, curator of the Alamo museum, said moviegoers who expect a close remake of the John Wayne "Alamo" film will be disappointed. He says the new movie is more accurate and calls the 1960 classic film "real bad history."

"It's hard to believe that Hollywood would do a movie where there was so much historical information in it," he told the Associated Press. "If you're expecting a remake of John Wayne's movie, you're going to be pretty much surprised by what you'll see."

The movie is directed by John Lee Hancock. It stars Billy Bob Thornton, Dennis Quaid, Emilio Echevarría, Patrick Wilson and Jason Patric.
 
According to Worldnetdaily, the $100mil movie only took $9mil during the weekend.

Flop
 
Historical figures are rarely the saints that some movies portray them as. And they are seldom as bad as some revisionists would have you believe. In the end, most are human beings who are a mixture of good and bad qualities but who, at a critical juncture of time, take an action which has a lasting impact on the future.

History is often a much more complex blend of forces than can be explained within the confines of a two to three hour movie. Many forces and personalities join together to create what happens and it's virtually impossible to give credit to all.

Oh, and while I personally like the John Wayne version of the Alamo, I highly doubt that it is perfect down to the last detail.

The battle at the Alamo happened.

Crockett, Travis, and Bowie died there.

Santa Ana won the battle but lost the war.

The United States eventually gained Texas (or was it the other way round)?

The rest is details which no one can portray for sure.
 
Saw the movie Saturday with my wife. I liked it, Thorton did an excellent job as Crockett. Suggest reading : Three Roads to the Alamo: The Lives and Fortunes of David Crockett, James Bowie, and William Barret Travis. HarperCollins, New York, 1998. by William C. Davis, Professor of History and Director of Programs, Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University

These were very human men with a touch of the scoundrel and a touch of the saint. Read the book cited above for some clearer definition of all that came to pass. It doesn't make them any lesser heroes in my eyes as were the other 180 plus men that died there.
 
This is from today's WSJ.com. Seems there may have been a fair bit of depth to Mr. Crockett after all. ;)


http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110004940


Davy Crockett, Libertarian
The king of the wild frontier was also a champion of limited government.

Monday, April 12, 2004 12:01 a.m. EDT

The new Disney film "The Alamo" has revived interest in Davy Crockett, the frontiersman-turned-celebrity who then entered politics and thus became an early American version of Arnold Schwarzenegger before he died fighting Santa Anna's legions in 1836.

Crockett is the main hero in the new film, but he also comes in for some debunking. Billy Bob Thornton plays Crockett as neither a homespun hero (Fess Parker's TV portrayal) or a laconic he-man (John Wayne's take on the legend in a 1960 film). Instead, he appears as a rejected candidate and relentless self-promoter who seeks a fresh start running for office in a new, independent Texas.

The revisionist historian Jeff Long has gone further and declared that the Crockett who died at the Alamo was an "aging, semiliterate squatter of average talent" who had "accomplished nothing" in his six years in Congress. That's much too harsh. David Crockett (he shunned his nickname) was an American archetype--the self-made man who always championed the commoner. "He knew instinctively the right combination of backwoods person and gentleman politician to adopt," says historian William C. Davis. His success inspired Abraham Lincoln in his rise from backwoods lawyer to the White House, and his celebrity attracted the notice of Alexis de Tocqueville.

In Congress he championed the rights of squatters, poor settlers who claimed and built on undeveloped Western land but were barred from buying it if they didn't already own property. In 1830, he broke with President Andrew Jackson and opposed his Indian Removal Act because it uprooted 60,000 members of peaceful tribes and brutally forced them across the Mississippi River. "Several of my colleagues got around me, and told me how well they loved me, and that I was ruining myself," Crockett recounted in his autobiography. "I told them it was a wicked, unjust measure, and that I should go against it, let the cost to myself be what it might."

Indeed, his growing opposition to what he considered the headstrong policies of "King Andrew the First," cost him dearly. President Jackson, a fellow Tennesseean, urged Crockett's constituents to "not disgrace themselves" by re-electing him. Jackson's allies crafted a blatant gerrymander to drive Crockett from office, but he nonetheless survived. Then in 1834 he stumbled badly when he took time away from a congressional session to promote his book in a three-week tour of the Northeast. He lost his re-election bid, 51% to 49%, to a war hero with a wooden leg. He then famously told his constituents, "You may all go to hell, and I will go to Texas." He did just that and his death the next year at the Alamo ensured his place among America's heroes.





Almost forgotten in the mystique of his legend is Crockett's commitment to the principles of limited government. An 1884 biography of Crockett by Edward Sylvester Ellis published an account of a speech Crockett gave on his views on government called "Not Yours to Give." Rep. Ron Paul, a Republican of libertarian bent, whose district includes some of the historic sites in the battle for Texas independence, recommends it as a guide for how elected officials should interpret the Constitution. Crockett's heroism at the Alamo is matched by the good common sense that he exhibits in this excerpt from the Ellis book:

One day in the House, a bill was taken up appropriating money for the benefit of a widow of a distinguished naval officer. Several beautiful speeches had been made in its support. The speaker was just about to put the question when Rep. David Crockett arose:
"Mr. Speaker--I have as much respect for the memory of the deceased, and as much sympathy for the suffering of the living, if there be, as any man in this House, but we must not permit our respect for the dead or our sympathy for part of the living to lead us into an act of injustice to the balance of the living.

"I will not go into an argument to prove that Congress has not the power to appropriate this money as an act of charity. Every member on this floor knows it. We have the right as individuals, to give away as much of our own money as we please in charity; but as members of Congress we have no right to appropriate a dollar of the public money. I am the poorest man on this floor. I cannot vote for this bill, but I will give one week's pay to the object, and if every member of Congress will do the same, it will amount to more than the bill asks."

Later, when asked by a friend why he had opposed the appropriation, Crockett said: "Several years ago, I was one evening standing on the steps of the Capitol with some members of Congress when our attention was attracted by a great light over in Georgetown. It was evidently a large fire. In spite of all that could be done, many houses were burned and many families made houseless. . . . The weather was very cold, and when I saw so many children suffering, I felt that something ought to be done. A bill was introduced appropriating $20,000 for their relief. We rushed it through.

"The next summer, when riding one day in a part of my district. I saw a man in a field plowing. I spoke to the man. He replied politely, but rather coldly.

" 'You are Colonel Crockett. I shall not vote for you again.' "

"I begged him tell me what was the matter."

"'Well Colonel, you gave a vote last winter which shows that either you have not capacity to understand the Constitution or that you are wanting in the honesty and firmness to be guided by it. You voted for a bill to appropriate $20,000 to some sufferers by fire in Georgetown.

" 'Certainly nobody will complain that a great and rich country like ours should give $20,000 to relieve its suffering women and children, particularly with a full and overflowing treasury,' I replied."

"'It is not the amount, Colonel, it is the principle. The power of collecting and disbursing money at pleasure is the most dangerous power that can be entrusted to man. . . . You will very easily perceive what a wide door this would open for fraud and corruption and favoritism, on the one hand, and for robbing the people on the other. The people have delegated to Congress, by the Constitution, the power to do certain things. To do these, it is authorized to collect and pay moneys, and for nothing else. Everything beyond this is usurpation, and a violation of the Constitution.'

" 'You have violated the Constitution in what I consider a vital point. It is a precedent fraught with danger to the country, for when Congress once begins to stretch its power beyond the limits of the Constitution, there is no limit to it, and no security for the people.'

"Now, sir," concluded Crockett, "you know why I made that speech yesterday. . . . You remember that I proposed to give a week's pay. There are in that House many very wealthy men--men who think nothing of spending a week's pay, or a dozen of them, for a dinner or a wine party when they have something to accomplish by it. Yet not one of them responded to my proposition. Money with them is nothing but trash when it is to come out of the people."

Following his death at the Alamo, the voters of Tennessee came to regret their rejection of David Crockett. Indeed, they elected his son, John Wesley Crockett, to his old congressional seat in the very next election. His father's life story is not just one of sacrifice on the battlefield of the Alamo but also one of courage and principle in the political arena.
 
R-Tex-12:

Thank you. I had not previously read that about Col. Crockett, and we need to know such things about our traditional heroes, especially when they are so often under attack by liberals not fit to shine ther boots.

Too many in Hollywood have led such despondent, trashy lives themselves, that they feel a need to destroy the legends of those who gave much to their nation. Some have actually been communists, I believe.

I am more than a little tired of hearing Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Ben Franklin, el al being denigrated for having owned slaves or written ribald prose and being referred to as, "dead white men". The people running their mouths - and computers - so freely owe much to dead white men.

Lone Star
 
I saw the movie this weekend as well. I enjoyed the flintlocks and battle scenes.

Overall, I liked the movie. I would have to agree that it does not follow the traditional Alamo story.

I hate the modern revisionism that goes on. It is never intended to find the truth. It is always aimed at downing western culture. That being said, I didn't think the movie was too heavily done from a revisionist point of view. It did use a fair number of more modern interpretations but is about as good as Disney will ever be able to do considering that most modern Hollyweird types are unable to understand the traditional American mindset or the type of true character that made up the typical 19th century American.
 
Will see it soon. But I think I saw the laws of physics defied in a short scene from it, shown on TV. Do the flintlock rifles indeed fire without any apparent recoil?

Bart Noir
What fun is shooting if it don't bark on your shoulder?
 
Just saw it. I really liked it. It makes all the heroes out to be heroes, so I don't see what some people have against it.

P.S. The Mexicans win the battle of the Alamo. There, now I've ruined for all you folks. :neener:
 
Viking6...

"Suggest reading : Three Roads to the Alamo: The Lives and Fortunes of David Crockett, James Bowie, and William Barret Travis. HarperCollins, New York, 1998. by William C. Davis, Professor of History and Director of Programs, Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University"

THANKS A LOT!!! Now I have another book in my pile to read.

Seriously though, it looks like a good read. Thanks for the recommendation.
 
I thought it was a decent flick. I think Crockett, Bowie Travis and Houston were all portrayed as real men, with real faults who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, yet stood their ground against insurmountable odds even though they knew it would cost them their lives. ie. real heroes

What were the Texan's firing out of the cannons? Grapeshot?
 
Some of the rifles had no recoil. Others recoiled ALOT. I think it just depended on the actor doing the shooting.

They should have shown the nails being loaded in the cannon better. People behind me were trying to explain to each other what was going on. I explained to them afterwards that they would dump lots of old rusty nails, bits of wire, rocks, etc into the cannons to do more damage to the infanty. They were rather shocked! :rolleyes:

Anyways, I posted in the other thread my other thoughts on the film, but will repeat them here:

I though the editing was rather rough. Some of the acting seemed corney and forced. Otherwise, decent movie. The battle scenes were done well.

I did like Travis' character though. Even though I knew he doesn't make it out, I felt bad when he checked out. I loved how he treated the Cannon Ball incident! I almost broke out clapping when he did that....wanted to shout: You Da Man Travis!! (me=lame)
 
Them Messicans no se gustan la pelicula "The Alamo".

Alamo not remembered as glorious victory in Mexico

By Angeles Negrete Lares
The Brownsville Herald

April 11, 2004 - What most Texans remember from their sixth-grade history class are the heroic figures from the Alamo: Jim Bowie and Davy Crockett, who died in 1836 protecting the oldest Spanish mission in the San Antonio area.

It inspired the battle cry “Remember the Alamo†and later inspired the American troops in the war against Mexico in 1846.

But Mexican classrooms don’t often focus on these aspects of history. Rather, they remember what happened after the Alamo — including Antonio López de Santa Anna’s “treasonous†recognition of Texas’ independence in 1836 and the signing of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in 1848, which relinquished present-day Arizona, California, New Mexico, Texas, and parts of Colorado, Nevada and Utah to the United States. In exchange, Mexico received 15 million pesos.

“The battle of the Alamo?†asked 62-year-old Matamoros resident José Sandoval.

“I do not think we studied that in history class here in Mexico. What we talk a lot about, and I think is what we Mexicans remember the most, is how the U.S. took advantage by taking part of what was considered Mexico.â€

The Alamo ended in victory for Mexico but sparked a chapter in history that Mexicans do not want to remember.

Mexican textbooks contain only a couple pages detailing the Alamo battle, while more focus is given to Santa Anna and the transfer of territory to the United States.
“What we talk about in Mexican history textbooks are Santa Anna’s battles and the separation of Texas and its annexation to the United States,†said Mariano Torres, an eighth-grade teacher at the Juan Jose de la Garza middle school in Matamoros.
“We also talk about how Mexico lost its territory after the U.S.-Mexico War.â€

But 168 years after the battle, discussion continues about what really happened at the Alamo, thanks in part to Friday’s nationwide release of “The Alamo†movie.

On March 6, 1836, the Alamo fell to Mexican troops after a 13-day fight. Although defeated, the Texans used the defeat as a rallying cry in their fight against Mexico.
Weeks after the battle, the Mexican army was defeated at San Jacinto, and General Santa Anna was arrested. In exchange for his life, he relinquished property rights to Texas.

Denise Nuo, San Antonio native and president and CEO of Hispanic Journal, told the San Antonio Express-News that she was disappointed after seeing the film.

“As a movie lover, it was a great film,†said Nuo, who lives in Dallas. “As a Hispanic American, I felt empty. It’s like there isn’t that perspective. Juan Seguin didn’t seem the hero that he was. We were all looking for it to be more representative of the Tejano contribution.â€

Matamoros historian Andres Cuellar hopes the new movie does not reinforce some long-believed myths about the battle.

“Films about historical battles in Hollywood have always tried to characterize and cover the truth, and that is the case (in this movie),†Cuellar said.

“The myth of the battle of the Alamo is recognized as … a victory for the Texans, but at the same time, is an unjustified myth about the alleged cruelty of Mexicans of that time,†Cuellar said.
Cuellar proposed that historians from Mexico and the United States reach an agreement about the historical facts on the Alamo.

Asked if he will see the movie, Cuellar answered with a smile.

“Yes I will. … Sure I will, even if I get too angry if the film exaggerates the way things happened,†he said, making a fist.

Gabriel Carranza, program director for Latin American studies at Texas A&M University, considered it important to recapture the historical essence of the Alamo.
“I think it is important (to) … teach children to comprehend the historical context and instill pride for being a Texan,†said Carranza.

“The film will send a message of Texan patriotism, the defense of our territory and the defense of our people,â he said.


Brownsville Herald
 
This is a movie from Disney. Why would you support them?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Because realistically, trying to boycott a conglomerate like Disney would be like trying to go two weeks without water.
 
I'll wait and maybe see it on DVD. Then again it is a Disney film and it has mixed reviews. I like the John Wayne version so much! Maybe I'll pass on this one!
 
A quotation:

“The myth of the battle of the Alamo is recognized as … a victory for the Texans, but at the same time, is an unjustified myth about the alleged cruelty of Mexicans of that time,†Cuellar said.
Cuellar proposed that historians from Mexico and the United States reach an agreement about the historical facts on the Alamo."

I seem to recall that Gen. Santa Anna had about 400 Texas rebels executed. IIRC, this was prior to the Alamo battle and I believe those rebels were under Col. Fannon's command.

Of course, executing rebels who had surrendered might be a legit act, but would not state that it was an "un-cruel" action.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top