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Moving to a new place that doesn't allow firearms

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by SolaScriptura139, Jun 27, 2007.

?

What should I do?

  1. Violate lease agreement and keep my pistol in my house/vehicle

    160 vote(s)
    78.4%
  2. Follow lease agreement and put my pistol in storage or with someone I trust

    8 vote(s)
    3.9%
  3. Other (please specify in post)

    36 vote(s)
    17.6%
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  1. pogostick

    pogostick Member

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    Some links...

    I did a google search for "west virginia","landlord rights"
    and came up with two sites that might help you a little...
    First http://www.federalrealestate.net/laws/wvstatelaw.html
    and
    second http://www.wvlegalservices.org/

    The first is WVa Landlord Tenant Law
    the second says it provides legal advice for those who earn
    less than 125% of the poverty level.

    A while back I almost bought a duplex as an investment and I'm pretty sure that you can't restrict legal rights such as speech, rtkba, etc... But that may have been spelled out for clearly by KY law and not apply everywhere. A third place to check with would be http://www.hud.gov/local/wv/renting/tenantrights.cfm There is a form to file a complaint and ask questions and such there. And that would be my starting point in your situation.

    Also, reading the WV ccw laws on PDO it appears you have similar preemption as here, so that may also provide some protection as it relates to carry and storage.

    Of course this is all my opinion created over about 5 mins. And I'm not a lawyer or anything.

    Good luck.
     
  2. hornadylnl

    hornadylnl Member

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    You do realize that HUD is paid for by taxpayers, right?
     
  3. RP86

    RP86 Member

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    It's not against the law, just the landlord's policy. The slap on the wrist you'll get if you should have to defend yourself won't bother you a bit.
     
  4. BigRobT

    BigRobT Member

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    Mn law specifically states that a landlord may not prohibit guns in a building. It's up to the lessee to post or ban guns, if they want. Check out http://www.twincitiescarry.com/forum/index.php, the reference section. I'm certain WV has to have something similar. Probably in a similar area of the law.
     
  5. mons meg

    mons meg Member

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    Edit: responded to wrong post
     
  6. SolaScriptura139

    SolaScriptura139 Member

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    That was another thing I struggled with, but I didn't mention it because I wanted to avoid any religious arguments.



    So? I pay taxes too. Heaven forbid I use a government-ran program to better my life and the life of my family.



    If you had read my previous post, you would have seen that I said that the townhouses are not government ran. And actually, I think social welfare programs are meant to help people better their lives. And a vast majority (my only citation being from topics discussed in my social work classes) do use those programs as they are intended, such as myself (who unashamedly receives food stamps as well). I am no freeloader; I work two jobs and go to college full-time. Just because there are a few people who misuse it, it doesn't mean the program is just a handout for the lazy. Just like those who use firearms irresponsibly doesn't mean that every gun-owner is irresponsible.
     
  7. shadowalker

    shadowalker Member

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    If you can't avoid living there violate the terms of the lease, if you wind up having to use it the lease wont matter to you at all.

    I've also lived in low income places before and as others have said it is a very good place to be armed, especially since other tenants know the landlord doesn't want you to be armed.
     
  8. gezzer

    gezzer Member

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    Move elsewhere only you can give up your rights.
     
  9. Blackbeard

    Blackbeard Member

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    That sounds more like a restaruant owner's right to keep firearms out. Not a landlord's. Note the phrase "temporarily relinquish".
     
  10. TimboKhan

    TimboKhan Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't understand the hostile attitude this poor guy is getting from us. Low income housing is for people with....... LOW INCOMES!!! You can't say "spend more on rent", because if you don't have it, you don't have it. I happen to live in a pretty nice townhouse in a pretty good part of town, but if my roommate moves (which is a possiblity due to a job offer), I am going to have to move someplace else, and I flat can't afford more than $450/month. It's not about making choices, it's about cold, hard numbers. Further, you will never find a more economically conservative guy than me. I hated the way the welfar system was run, and I am not too fond of it now. With that being said, I have three friends who have used it as it was intended to be used with great success. One went from being a dead-broke single mother to being a college professor, and the other two went on to get decent jobs and get off the system. Having just graduated from college, I can tell you that it was rough for a single guy like myself. Having a wife and two kids? I don't think many of you realize just how hard this guy is having to work to keep his head above water, both economically and scholastically. Add food, car repairs, gasoline, insurance, doctor visits and everything else and then see if you can show him where he is supposed to kick out another $100.00.

    Then there is this attitude:
    Really? You can't see where the government is set up to help and provide for it's citizens? I would agree with the general sentiment that the government is far too intrusive, but to imply that the government and the people within have no responsibility towards each other is just plain stupid. If you would like to see the part of the constitution that relates to this, look no further than the preamble.

    Your right, it doesn't say anything about pregnant 16 year old getting free schooling, specifically. The lines about domestic tranquility, posterity, general welfare and justice should say all of it for you. Look, as I said before, I am no fan of big government but things happen to people. 16 year olds get pregnant. Jobs get eliminated. Medical issues drain savings accounts. I would like to think that there are controls in place to help Americans (be they private or federal) get out of those problems. You can make many arguments about how the programs are mismanaged: you won't get any argument from me on that front. I don't support universal healthcare, big government or overreaching social programs. I do, however, believe that if I am paying taxes, I would rather that money go to someone who is truly in need and who will use that money to become a contributor to our country as opposed to a pox on it. If you want pregnant 16 year old girls to be punished for life for a mistake, thats your right as an American. I want pregnant 16 year old girls to have the support necessary to work their way out of their mistake and contribute to society, in addition to raising children that won't become the next generation of idiot thugs. Which, by the way, is exactly what you get when you mix a lack of education in with poverty and a dash of feeling helpless. Maybe I am an idealist, but I would much rather live in a country that looks after their own than one that doesn't.

    All that being said, Christian or not I would simply store the gun in the house and not say a word about it. Fact is, I would much rather break a lease and get in trouble than have a guy break into my house and kill my family or me.
     
  11. Tharg

    Tharg Member

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    Other -

    I did not read any reply on this thread... however. If you are moving to wherever that does not allow it. In the end, you have to ask yourself am i going to follow the rules or not. I would not carry on a schoolground that says no guns allowed (even CC permits) because that is the rule they made... by law that rule can be held against me if say... i used my gun in self-defense... now suddenly i'm a criminal because i used my firearm. I'm not cool with that. (i'm not cool with the laws/choices others make on where i can carry either - but thats neither here nor there since i don't make those rules directly)

    Just saying... you wouldn't move into an apt that doesn't accept dogs if you wanted to keep dogs... same goes w/ where ever yer moving to.

    just my opine =)

    J/Tharg!
     
  12. hornadylnl

    hornadylnl Member

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    "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." James Madison

    I think James Madison understood the intent and context of the constitution better than any of us. I just find it offensive that not only do I have to work many hours to pay my mortgage, I have to work even more hours to help someone else pay their rent. College isn't a necessity in life. I didn't go to college and I made almost $50k for the last 2 years. I'm not in favor of eliminating social programs entirely but they have gotten completely out of hand. I don't know what kind of assets you have, but I have a decent gun collection, a harley, and some other stuff that is worth money. Don't you think I should be obligated to sell that stuff to pay for what I need before I use the government to steal money out of someone else's pocket to put it in mine?

    Take for instance, the child tax credit. I worked with a guy making over $30k a year. He had 3 kids and would get back more money on his tax return than he had withheld. He couldn't understand why I said that was a handout. How do you get back more than you pay? If they gave him back the amount he paid, I wouldn't care. My taxes helped pay for his "bonus". That guy chose to have his 3 children so I shouldn't have to help pay for them.

    Our system of taxation punishes the prosperous and responsible and rewards the not so responsible.
     
  13. hornadylnl

    hornadylnl Member

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    You obviously have internet access. Do you have cell phones or cable tv? If so, there is your extra $100 for rent right there.

    My point about the 16 year old girl is that if there were real consequences for one's actions, they might take more personal responsibility and make better choices with their lives. The way it is now, people have the attitude that "oh well, if I screw up, there will be somebody to bail me out." I'm not saying I will never take government assistance but I will do everything in my power to take care of myself before I make any demands on my fellow Americans. I've worked hard to build up my assets. With the equity I have in my house, managing my credit, and my 401k, I have over $50k in assets and I'm only 30 years old. I don't buy new vehicles, etc. that I owe more money on than what they are worth.
     
  14. SolaScriptura139

    SolaScriptura139 Member

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    I do not have cell phones, and cable tv is provided by my wife's grandmother, who could not stand the fact that we did not have cable tv. And it's not just a matter of $100, I said that those places didn't include any utilities either. Many have gas heat, and I cannot afford anymore $200 gas bills.



    And working 2 jobs and going to school full time isn't trying to take care of my family? I've gone a year struggling without HUD, and I'm still not sure whether I'm going to actually receive it or not. But even if I do, I'm not making demands of my fellow Americans. If you saw the stats on corporate welfare, you'd see that it well overshadows any money given toward social welfare.


    In all actuality, for most decent jobs, college is a necessity. I would leave college if $50k jobs were lying all over the place that didn't require a college degree.


    Oh, so I'm a thief now? Real high road. If you haven't noticed, social welfare is meant to better a person's situation. It enables me to finish my college and provide for my family in the meantime. Once I'm out of college, I would now be enabled to be a person who could put back into the system. But you would have the system set up so that those who are less fortunate stay that way. College is practically a necessity these days, and I don't care what anyone says, it's almost impossible to live off of minimum wage with the cost of living without any help. But then again, I should just drop out of college and go get one of those $50k jobs laying around.


    But anyway, this thread was not about the social welfare system. Therefore, I will not participate in anymore discussion on that topic or my personal life relating to it. I appreciate the responses regarding my original question.
     
  15. fletcher

    fletcher Member

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    Sola, just carry your weapon concealed and cause no trouble. This policy is probably just in place so that they have legal/contractual justification to remove someone who causes problems with a gun. Just be smart about moving it around, and there will be no trouble.

    Best of luck to you in this situation, it's a shame somewhere would even make this an issue.
     
  16. B.D. Turner

    B.D. Turner Member

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    I cannot advocate you doing something that is not High Road so the gun will have to be stored at another location.
    I would look for somewhere else to live with less restrictions on freedom.
    If you are dependant on low income housing just expect to follow big brothers rules.
     
  17. Rumpled

    Rumpled Member

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    Didn't HUD itself lose a lawsuit about prohibiting firearms in HUD housing a few years back?
    I don't remember where it was.
    I think the key here will be WV law on the issue.
    Need to get that cleared up to have your correct answer.
     
  18. mons meg

    mons meg Member

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    What pogostick posted earlier rings true. In most states, contracts are not enforceable if a provision violates state law. Look to the applicable WV Landlord-Tenant legislation, as I don't think HUD is really the determining factor here.

    I do second the idea of getting a small safe or lockbox to place your weapon in when you're not home, in case they have to come by for maintenance, etc.
     
  19. PrimaryB

    PrimaryB Member

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    mons meg has a good point. At the university I work at for example pest control people are used as watch dogs. I don't agree with it but that's a fact. Even if they were not snitches whats keeping maintenance people from rummaging through your belongings when they have to enter your apartment when the neighbors have a leaky pipe when your not home? You will probably see in your contract they have the right to enter your apartment during emergencies

    I see a catch 22. You have a firearm for personal defense which by contract your not supposed to have. Lets say you have to use it to protect yourself or family. Either way your out on the streets when your had. Can't afford to live anywhere else you cant afford to retain a good lawyer.

    I know how times can be tough! I was a single parent 14 yrs ago with 2 kids. I made just enough money to not be eligible for jack s . Please consider other options or be prepared for who knows what. GOOD LUCK!

    PB
     
  20. lamazza

    lamazza Member

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    I wonder if anyone in that complex smokes marijuana? Do you think that is against the condo rules?
     
  21. Czar

    Czar Member

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    I had the same thing at several places when I was still in school. Just be discrete and keep such things out of casual view of say a repairman who may have to access your unit to do a repair which they may do without you present for a leak or such...


    best of luck
     
  22. SolaScriptura139

    SolaScriptura139 Member

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    Except that activity is also against the law.

    Once again, the townhouses are NOT government ran nor are they HUD housing. They are HUD approved, but HUD has nothing to do with my situation. From what I have seen in the state code, the landlord can tell me "no firearms" in the lease.

    I plan to against the lease quietly for the protection of my family. I feel that violating my lease is a small price to pay for the safety of my family. Violating this lease would not be against the law. I will buy a lockbox or safe to hide the gun when I am not at home, and although I have mentioned to the landlord that I have a firearm, I'll just tell him that I have it stored off-premises.

    I have also settled the spiritual complication with an eloquent pm from PennysPlinker and do not feel that this decision would go against my faith.

    I'd rather be evicted than put my family at risk. In the meantime, I'll be on the lookout for a place that I can afford that allows firearms.
     
  23. Fulcrum of Evil

    Fulcrum of Evil Member

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    > Folks telling you to move someplace where you "feel safe without a handgun" are nothing but victims in waiting looking at the world with an unrealistic eye.

    Hardly. It's like saying not to walk down a dark alley at night - if you don't feel safe when unarmed, then it's a crappy place and you should look for something better. That or work to make the place better, but that's a judgement call.
     
  24. hornadylnl

    hornadylnl Member

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    Solo,

    Just so you know, I didn't start off making $50k a year. I got married at 21 and out of the Army a year later. We got back home and my wife and I started working at the factory I work at now. I started off as a laborer in 99 making $10.95 an hour and with overtime, I probably made about $25k that year. I took weld school there after about 3 months and got a good raise. About a year and a half ago, I signed up for a maintenance trainee program through work. They paid me to go to class for 3 days a week for 3 months. I would be making a buck more an hour right now if I stayed welding but when you start a new job classification, you start out as a new hire on the pay scale and if you are already making more than the starting pay, your pay is froze until it catches up. I'm currently making $17.60 an hour. Last year, I grossed $48k and half of that year I was only making $16 an hour so do the math to figure out how much overtime I had to work.

    Over the next 4 years, I will receive over $4 an hour in raises. I sacrificed $2000 in base pay but will more than make up for it in a few years. I had my daughter when I turned 25 and my wife quit working. She only recently started working last Jan at the school where my daughter will be going so my daughter only had a few days a week each school semester away from my wife.

    Believe me, I've made many sacrifices over the years to keep my head above water without assistance. My car is a 97 ford escort wagon, my truck is a 91 f250. My Harley is a new 07 Ultra Classic I just bought in March. I waited over 10 years to treat myself to a new motorcycle. I bought my house when I was 22. I now have over $20k in equity on it and only have about 17 years left to pay it off after a refi. I haven't paid an interest charge on a credit card in at least 7 years. I have a credit score of 789 out of 830 which is better than over 97% of Americans.

    To manage all of this, I've done without alot of things I wanted. I bet I didn't spend more than $500 on gun related stuff in my daughters first 5 years of life. Since last fall, I've spent over $3k. It helps having my wife go back to work. I have over $50k in assets and I'm only 30 years old. I've never spent a day in college. It is achievable.

    I work on average around 45-50 hours a week. That sounds like a lot of time to spend at work to most. I don't know what you are going to school for but if you get into any kind of salary job, you will be fortunate to put in less than 50 hours a week.

    I'm giving you this advice in all seriousness. Do without now and you will be glad you did in the future. Unless something drastic happens, by the time I turn 50, I'll be able to flip burgers and survive. If you can get approved to buy a house, don't waste your time renting. I don't know what they housing market is like where you live, but in most places, you can buy for cheaper than what you can rent. Don't pay someone else's mortgage.

    I could give you my opinion on what a scam colleges are but it would take way too much bandwidth and you probably aren't interested.
     
  25. jefnvk

    jefnvk Member

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    So, the solution to someone putting terms you dont agree with when tehy rent their property to you, is to tell them what the terms are going to be by using a lawyer?

    Anyways, to the original question. Only you can make that choice. Not one of us can make it for you. While I lived in dorms, guns sometimes wern't in the approved storage location. Mostly out of the pain that it was to find anyone to put them in there, but thats another story. I realize you arent asking about dorms, but its the closest that I can say I've been to that situtation. Personally, I'd find somewhere else, but you seem pretty set on this property. In that case, I'd have to say that I am choosing to rent this guys property, I do so under his rules, that means the gun stays elsewhere. While I respect the right to own weapons, I also respect the right of aproperty owner telling me what I can do on his property.
     
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