Much-Revised Defense Loadout

[Safetyfirst]

Thank you to all who gave such useful feedback regarding my previous post on defensive selections. Here's an updated plan that incorporates the recommendations of many THR members and attempts to mimic the loadouts of experienced shooters and operators in the military sector.

Carbine: BCM/HSP Jack. One magazine in the gun and at least one spare in vehicle/house. Non-magnified optic, most likely Aimpoint Micro T-1, will ride on top.

Handgun (CCW): Sphinx SDP Compact Kryptonight Edition (when available). One magazine in the gun with another on personnel and at least one more in vehicle/house. Light, most likely Surfire X300 Ultra, running underneath. Threaded barrel for Defiance suppressor use (recreation only).

Knife: ZT 0301, carried at all times. Apparently some people carry two; I will have to decide if this is the right decision for me.

I'll use extra funds for training courses and ammunition. Any more tweaking required? Thanks again for recs

 

[ProwlingBanana]

You say some people carry two, I do, I carry a folder on my belt. She is a beauty, one one fixed blade in my back pocket, aside from the weird looks I get sometimes neither cause a problem. The one in my back pocket is a buck 20 dollar bill at Wally World, and frankly that's the main reason I carry two the first is purty and the second I couldn't give two hoots what happens to it.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Honestly, given your statements in the other thread, I think you are too focused on gear at this point and you don't seem to have a clear idea of what you need or want from your tools.

I think you'd probably be better off borrowing or renting a firearm and taking a course first. That would give you a better idea of what kind of tools are going to suit your purposes. Right now you are planning on spending a ton of money on gear and then getting training; but I absolutely guarantee you the training is going to change your thoughts on what gear is desirable.

If you are still set on owning your own firearms, I'd consider going very basic first and then modifying the firearms as you identify things you want to correct. The great thing about the AR is it is very modular, so it is easy to modify at any time - and a guy with a $600 sport and $1400 worth of training is going to be more effective than a guy with a $2000 Jack Cabine and no training.

If you are one of the recent Powerball winners and money is no object, then sure, start with some nice gear. Just understand that you will probably end up modifying the gear anyway.

 

[Davek1977]

AS they often say in regards to such things "Its the Indian, not the arrow". No matter how good your equipment is, or what you choose, training and experience will determine whether you survive if those weapons are ever needed. I'd rather have a rookie with a scoped sniper rifle shooting at me from 200 yards than an experienced marksmen using a Crickett .22 with open sights shooting at me at 100 yrds....Yes, experience is that important

 

[MattShlock]

Go Old School

I'd get a GI Joe with Combat Grip and "lifelike hair," however, I'd let the Adolfo Man take command.

 

[mdauben]

Carbine: BCM/HSP Jack. One magazine in the gun and at least one spare in vehicle/house. Non-magnified optic, most likely Aimpoint Micro T-1, will ride on top.

This sounds like a nice HD carbine, but I probably would not carry it in my vehicle unless I was experiencing severe social breakdown and was leaving the area. The rest of the time I'd be more worried about someone breaking into my vehicle and stealing it, than actually needing it while I was out and about.

Handgun (CCW): Sphinx SDP Compact Kryptonight Edition (when available). One magazine in the gun with another on personnel and at least one more in vehicle/house. Light, most likely Surfire X300 Ultra, running underneath. Threaded barrel for Defiance suppressor use (recreation only).

I have to admit I've never heard of Sphinx before, and I don't care to trust unknown weapons for SD. There are certainly plenty of other brands with long histories of reliable use by the military, police and/or civilians. If you know enough about the brand (including multiple reliable 1st hand reports) then go for it. Personally, while I think access to a flashlight can be critical, I don't care for weapon mounted lights becuase they require you to aim your loaded weapon at a target in order to identify it.

Knife: ZT 0301, carried at all times. Apparently some people carry two; I will have to decide if this is the right decision for me.

A very solid knife and a popular choice. I don't care for assisted opening knifes for SD myself (I prefer thumb holes or studs) but that's just personal opinion. I have to adjust my hand position too much between my "opening grip" and my "using grip" on every one I own.

I'll use extra funds for training courses and ammunition. Any more tweaking required? Thanks again for recs

This is really key. The best high speed/low drag equipment in the world will do you little good if you are not proficient with it and well trained in reacting to high stress situations.

 

[gym]

When you say load out, what are you talking about, an attack of some kind? I can assure you that most people here don't walk around with that much equipment on, unless they were in some sort of zombie world.
The normal guy has a pistol and a knife on him. Possibly a spare mag or 2, and a second knife, and backup gun. that would be maximum. It would be kind of hard blending in with much more than that on your person, and for what reason?
If you are indeed a novice at this, the more stuff you attempt to lug around with you the more likely you will stop carrying within a few months.

 

[Cosmoline]

Keeping it simple and cheap also has merit. You never want to rely on anything that's too valuable to let fall to the ground. These are only tools. And you also don't want to invest so much the loss will be crippling. For example if the high end AR loaded out is your truck gun, you immediately run the risk of having it stolen or worse used against you. Personally I prefer something like a Mosin-Nagant as a truck gun. It can lurk behind the seat drinking vodka and getting rusty, it doesn't care. And when you step into the mall you can just pull the bolt (takes one second) and the rifle cannot be used against you. If someone steals it, so what? They have a stick. You have a steel knuckle.

I'm not saying get a Mosin, but I'm suggesting you run your potential gear through those kind of *real* world scenarios. The zombie hoard is unlikely, but car theft is all too common. And of course local laws are extremely important as well. In what manner are you going to be able to carry the weapon? What is permitted socially, not just within the law? Yesterday I rode my bike through the city with an AK-74 on my back, but it was folded up in one of those very handy carry bags that uses the carbine's own sling. Nobody even noticed I was carrying a firearm. Just looks like an old sack. So how are you planning on toting your firearms?

 

[oneounceload]

If you feel you need a carbine in your car to go about your daily life, you need to move somewhere a little safer

 

[easyg]

You need a non-lethal tool.

You might be confronted with a minor threat that does not necessarily warrant deadly force....a stray dog that appears aggressive, a drunken bum, an aggressive panhandler or prostitute, etc...

You might want to ward off such potential threats, but you might not want to pull out your gun or knife.

I recommend pepper-spray or a baton or a stun-gun.

Cops use non-lethal tools much more often than they use lethal tools because most potential threats don't deserve to be killed.

And about that knife....

Personally, I don't recommend a knife for self defense.
Too many blood borne pathogens out there.
And it looks really bad in a court room (people think of Jack the ripper, the Manson family, etc...(blame Hollywood but the "good guys" seldom use a knife).
I think a sap or blackjack is a better tool.

 

[MagnumWill]

I see you're thinking about a light on the pistol, go with a separate flashlight so you can use it without wielding your pistol in a situation that may not need it. If you need it on the draw, use the good old two-handed method.

 

[ErieLurker]

Was tempted to reply to the OP's other thread, but...

Well, if he's really determined to do this:

1. Classes. Not just any. For instance, try Clint Smith at Thunder Ranch for a week or so. Or a few years in the Infantry, at least to get a proper frame of reference - and some basic knowledge.
2. Bear Spray (Yes, Bear Spray!)
3. Get your CCW and a decent DA handgun. Personally would go for an SA (that's just me), but no CCW (effectively) allowed where I live.
4. If a carbine is really judged necessary, get a Sa vz 58 from CSA or FSN (not CZ - beware "The Trigger Gremlin" - and from CSA-made receivers, no less) in 7.62x39mm. An 8.5 inch barrel is a largely a waste of the 6.8x43mm's capabilities (unless your State has certain bore-size limits - as my Province does).

Look it's been several years since I worked in Detroit, but where does the OP live/work/hang out that he really feels the need for this?

Low maintenance option:

Get an AR, and makes friends with a vet/old infantryman/street cop.

 

[Potatohead]

Honestly, given your statements in the other thread, I think you are too focused on gear at this point and you don't seem to have a clear idea of what you need or want from your tools.

I think you'd probably be better off borrowing or renting a firearm and taking a course first. That would give you a better idea of what kind of tools are going to suit your purposes. Right now you are planning on spending a ton of money on gear and then getting training; but I absolutely guarantee you the training is going to change your thoughts on what gear is desirable.

If you are still set on owning your own firearms, I'd consider going very basic first and then modifying the firearms as you identify things you want to correct. The great thing about the AR is it is very modular, so it is easy to modify at any time - and a guy with a $600 sport and $1400 worth of training is going to be more effective than a guy with a $2000 Jack Cabine and no training.

If you are one of the recent Powerball winners and money is no object, then sure, start with some nice gear. Just understand that you will probably end up modifying the gear anyway.

Darn good approach. I just started in Feb and I can tell you from experience this is correct. I'm still a newb by far but if i had known then what I know now, almost every piece of equipment i've bought-I would've bought something different. To name one (of the four):

Rushed out and bought an AR15---my dad says "wait until you can take your uncle (a retired LEO) and he can help you decide what you need". Of course I already "knew" what i needed and now I've ended up with an AR15 with a fixed carry handle. Would get one with a detachable handle (or no handle) if I could get do it again.

 

[mdauben]

I think a sap or blackjack is a better tool.

I would agree, except for one thing. In most places the OP could carry his knife of choice almost anywhere with no problem. Get caught with a sap or blackjack in your pocket and you're good for at least a ride in the back of a police car.

This is another reason to not attach your flashlight to your handgun. A heavy, "tactical" flashlight makes an excellent improvised impact weapon, but if an LEO ask you about it you can honestly say "it's just a flashing, officer."


Sent from the Andromeda galaxy using Tachyon particles

 

[MattShlock]

The normal guy has a pistol and a knife on him. Possibly a spare mag or 2, and a second knife, and backup gun. that would be maximum...

I'm confident that even for people who carry anything beyond a loaded pistol itself, they're quickly approaching the paranoid extremes and a "standard loadout" is just the next logical step...

 

[Safetyfirst]

My plan was never to stockpile, prep or make ready for a "bug-out." Frankly I think that kind of organization is silly and unnecessary. I did, however, want to start carrying regularly. One handgun and one knife was what I considered appropriate, I was never planning on keeping more than that on my personnel. An extra mag or too maybe, but that's it.

Originally my selections were chambered for less orthodox rounds, and since coming here I have learned why that's a bad idea. 5.6 and 9mm are now the plan, and the platforms I've chosen are to my knowledge strong choices.

The carbine would mostly stay in the home, probably in the bedroom. If you all think keeping it in the vehicle is an extreme and a potential robbery problem, perhaps that part of the plan can be revised. Is a non-magnified optic or a low variable-zoom scope the predominantly more successful option these days?

 

[Garyshome]

I got a steel baton a month or 2 ago [I keep one in every car], If I have one of these I don't really need a knife [but still carry a Kershaw I got at WM]. I have a flashlight in every car. I need a First Aid Kit in every car [Only have one in the work truck].

 

[Mike J]

Safetyfirst- I don't think you are mentally ill or anything like that but you do seem to be very enthusiastic with a lot of disposable income. I agree with most of what others have been saying get some training or experience first then decide what you want.

How are you deciding which guns you want? I am another that was unfamiliar with Sphinx Arms. They may be good guns but they aren't widely known here at this time. It would probably be difficult to find things like holsters & parts. This is something that should be taken into consideration. I have been carrying a Springfield XD since 2007. I have always been able to get what I want for it (they are fairly popular guns) but it is much easier to get anything you want for a Glock. Have you shot any of these guns that you are picking or are you just deciding you want something because you read how great it is? I would suggest get your training first or buy a basic good pistol with a simple manual of arms that has a proven track record & accessories are readily available for.

To be honest when I carry I usually have either a Springfield Armory XD with an extra magazine or a Kel Tec P11 & an extra magazine . I do carry a knife because a knife is a useful thing to have. It is a Buck clip knife with a thumb stud. I hope I never get into a knife fight because I really don't want to get cut. I can understand the utility of a weapon mounted light but as others have said if you get one you also need a handheld so you aren't pointing a gun at everything you light up. I don't even own an AR. I'm not opposed to the idea I just don't have one. If I do get one (and sooner or later I probably will) I'm not going to leave it in my truck to be stolen. It will be at home unless I take it out to shoot or decide I want to take it to the woods. Take your time. Learn everything you can. Enjoy the process. Remember the software is more important than the hardware.

 

[tarosean]

Originally my selections were chambered for less orthodox rounds, and since coming here I have learned why that's a bad idea. 5.6 and 9mm are now the plan, and the platforms I've chosen are to my knowledge strong choices.

The carbine would mostly stay in the home, probably in the bedroom. If you all think keeping it in the vehicle is an extreme and a potential robbery problem, perhaps that part of the plan can be revised. Is a non-magnified optic or a low variable-zoom scope the predominantly more successful option these days?

This something that will come with experience.. you will have to draw your own conclusions as to whats better for you and the type of practice and distance that you will regularly do.

Just as your choices in firearms... You really cannot listen to what forums claim as the best weapon or worst weapon out there. If you did you likely wouldn't own a gun period. After the internet claims, they either all suck or all the best thing since sliced cheese. Trigger time and your own knowledge will lead all your future choices.

 

[gamestalker]

I agree with others, in that, you seem overly focused on gear and weaponry. Maximum fire power isn't the most important factor in self defense, in fact it is probably the least important factor in my opinion. Proficiency, by means of practice and professional training should come way before you decide on what quantities of fire power to carry around with you. Not that there is anything wrong with carrying more than most do, but it could give you a false sense of security, or get you into some serious trouble if you should ever have to defend yourself with all that fire power. I can't imagine what an over zealous prosecutor would do if something happened that required you to respond with FA weaponry. Lucy, yu got sum splaining to do!

First and foremost, take some serious classes that are focused on that mind set of weaponry and defensive tactics. Spraying large quantities of bullets isn't usually the best option in a typical metropolitan setting.

GS

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Whew....some real jargon there: loadout, operator, military sector, personnel, XYZ Kryptonite gun and so on....I see I am seriously under equipped with my snub and maybe Dollar Tree if I get the mail after dark.

 

[MattShlock]

Frankly I think that kind of organization is silly and unnecessary... One handgun and one knife was what I considered appropriate, I was never planning on keeping more than that on my personnel.

And how many operators on your team so far or is that TS Intel?

 

[Hanzo581]

OP, it's really simple.

Mindset-Skillset-Toolset

You are basically going backwards and that is why people are jumping on you. Also you are coming off as someone that is 21 or 22 years old tops and new to the firearms world.

 

[bikerdoc]

Mindset, skill set, then tool set.

ETA Hanzo beat me to it.

 

[pockets]

attempts to mimic the loadouts of experienced shooters and operators in the military sector.

Why? Are you planning a military operation?
Or do you simply want to get to and from the local 7-11 in relative safety?

post #1 - One magazine in the gun with another on personnel
post #16 - I was never planning on keeping more than that on my personnel.

How many personnel are in your group?
With all the gear listed, you might want to assign one of your personnel some 'tactical wheelbarrow duty'.


As has been said in nearly every reply, you seem to be approaching it all backwards.

.