Mushrooming 22 LR Case - Heritage Rough Rider

[AbnerD]

A buddy of mine bought a Heritage Rough Rider 22 LR. He was telling me that after a couple rounds it jams.

I took a look and after a couple shots, something happens that allows the casing to slip back out of the chamber and mushroom right at the base. See picture. The left is mushroomed and the right not. This mushrooming causes the case to bind up the cylinder as it is advanced, after firing.

I marked each chamber that had a mushroomed case, then fired with that chamber empty, and eventually found that every chamber can produce a deformed case.

Does anyone have any idea as to what is going on here?

Cylinder is tight.
Lifetime rounds shot approximately 10 rounds.
Shooting Remington 22 LR.
Rounds slide in and out of chambers without resistance.
No obvious shaving or misalignment marks.

 

[jak67429]

How much end play does it have? Looks like the case is not fully supported when firing.

 

[ontarget]

Is it possible he has a 22 mag cylinder installed? I shot some 22lr from a Heritage 22 mag cylinder and the cases split.

 

[AbnerD]

The cylinder has a ridge, that obviously gives an opportunity for back out. I made sure the rounds were seated well. But, somehow they are backing out under pressure.

 

[AbnerD]

Good point on the mag cylinder. I don't remember seeing the mag mark on it. I will take a look real quick.

 

[gobsauce]

Worst case scenario, call them up man.

 

[AbnerD]

The cylinder is stamped 22LR.

With that ridge on the back of the cylinder there is room for the case to back out (the distance from the cylinder to the recoil plate).

Somehow, when the hammer strikes, the case pulls back out of the cylinder under pressure and the pressure mushrooms the case. Or, the round has backed out of the chamber from previous recoil, and is firing back against the recoil plate, giving the case a small unsupported segment and mushrooming.

Can it be tied to the firing pin spring? Are they relying on the firing pin to push the round back into the cylinder to seat the round?

 

[AbnerD]

I think that is where I'm at Gob. Nothing seems to make sense. I'm not seeing anything like this in my searches either.

 

[AbnerD]

I called Heritage (800.845.3776) Contact Us (heritagemfg.com).

No clue. But it's not like you get to talk with a Gunsmith. They are sending a shipping label for repair (est. 4 weeks in queue).
I will let you guys know what I hear.

 

[film495]

send it to them for sure. I got one a while back and we haven't shot it much, but it didn't do that. Remington is pretty cheap ammo, but shot some in mine and it worked fine, dirty as heck, but fine.

 

[ontarget]

Try dropping a mag case in that cylinder. In your pic it doesn't look fluted. I have 4 of them and my mag cylinders are not fluted but the LR cylinders are. It could have been stamped incorrectly at the factory.

 

[eddiememphis]

The case that is deforming is the one being fired?

Have you measured the diameter of the cylinder bores?

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Setting my HRR .22 LR and .22 WMR cylinders side by side at the same angle as the photo, that is a .22 WMR cylinder in the photo. The "ridge" on the back of the cylinder is deeper for WMR vs LR.

My Heritage Rough Rider LR cylinder has no caliber marking but has flutes. My HRR magnum cylinder is straight cylinder no flutes and marked .22 WMR

(.22 WMR, .22 Winchester Magnum Rimfire aka .22 Magnum)

 

[Rock185]

If the chambers are properly machined, that would appear to me to be a headspace issue. The machined area of the cylinder where the rim seats, may be machined a bit too deep. It only takes a few thousandths to create a problem. Sending it back is the right thing to do IMHO....

 

[Carl N. Brown]

"Rounds slide in and out without resistance."

I fired my Heritage RR with the fluted .22 LR cylinder yesterday. The second string of six rounds had to be seated by finger: the fouling from one round was ennough to create resistance. They machine those cylinders precise.

But there is plenty of room in the .22 WMR marked cylinder for .22 LR cartridges. They slide in and out and rattle about. I bet I could put the magnum cylinder in my HRR, load it with .22 LR, use like a maracas, and get sent home by the RSO.

I'll repeat myself. Myself. No, I'll post again: that looks like a .22 magnum cylinder. No flutes.

 

[SGW Gunsmith]

Just curious, have you tried any other brands of ammunition? I had some Winchester .22 Long Rifle rounds do that very same thing a while back. Some even bulged so badly, they started to "smile" at me:

They did end up on the "recall list".

 

[AbnerD]

Thanks guys. I'm on your suggestions.
Everything seems to point to ammo or cylinder/headspace. I will do some more testing before I send it back and let you know.

 

[whughett]

Could be the gun was designed for normal or low velocity Ammo. What type of 22’s are giving this condition. Were other types brands tried.

For instance CCI Stingers are slightly longer and much higher pressure than even high velocity 22LR. I was unaware of this until one blew out in my H&R 99 Sportsman.

 

[defjon]

Probably get a wrangler.

Just joking (not really).

 

[Carl N. Brown]

I fired a few Remington hvhp in my HRR .22WMR cylinder to test my theory.

The case bodies bulged. The heads did not. This case gets curiouser.
Could the OP have a cylinder drilled for .22, the cylinder head rebated for .22 magnum rims but the chambers not drilled for the .22 magnum case? The equivalent of a .22 LR with excess headspace?


Added: that is also how .22 LR looks after firing in my .22 magnum Taurus pump rifle. There is enough gas pressure to expand the case to fit the chamber, but weak bullet impact from .22 LR in a .22 WMR chamber indicates a lot of gas blows around the bullet in the magnum chamber before the bullet engages the rifling. That makes the ballooned head in the OP more puzzling.

 

[BBBBill]

Headspace and endshake should be measured as a first step. You don't need headspace gauges to do so. A depth micrometer and feeler gauges aill get it done. If you don't have a depth mic and don't want to buy one you can take the cylinder to a machine shop and have them measure across the cylinder back face adjacent each chamber hole. You want to take those multiple readings to account for any possible runout, but there should not be much. Then measure the endshake of the cylinder and take the minimum and maximum measurements at the rear cylinder face and the breech face and add them to the previously obtained meaurements done with the depth mic. That will tell you your minimum and maximum headspace. Post those numbers here and we can possibly tell you more about what you are dealing with.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

These are the cartridge chamber ends of my HRR cylinders.

And these are the bullet exit faces:

The .22 magnum cylinder is stamped .22 WMR on the side (2016 manufacture; I have seen them in ads stamped .22 magnum or .22 WMR).
The .22 short, long, long rifle cylinder is not stamped with caliber but has the cute little flutes on the end.

 

[jmorris]

Somehow, when the hammer strikes, the case pulls back out of the cylinder under pressure and the pressure mushrooms the case.

Newton's third law, the case is going the opposite direction of the bullet, has less resistance and is lighter.

The case would be blown larger on the weaker end if you had the wrong cylinder installed. So it is a case in the correct cylinder but allowed to move rearward more than desired.

Remove the cylinder and take a photo of the recoil cup, it’s the part the firing pin protrudes through to hit the rim. #17 below. Is below, flush or proud of the frame?



Post a photo of this area.



and another of the cylinder, with a loaded round and a straight edge across the cylinder like this.

 

[peeplwtchr]

I picked this up accidentally when I was picking up my brass at the range last weekend.. I kept it because I had never seen anything like it, or had any idea what could cause it.

Damn what a great forum this is.

 

[4v50 Gary]

I'd scrub and dry each chamber. Then I'd headspace each chamber.