muzzleloader is on-BH209.
- Thread starter Axis II
- Start date
- Status
DKSDonnie
Member
No sir, it will "NOT"! No rust, no crud ring, minimal smoke cloud. You can load up and set the gun in the gun case and leave it there until next year and bring it out and fire it and it will hit right where you sighted in at. It's not water soilable. Meaning it doesn't draw moisture, nor do you use warm soap and water to clean the rifle like BP substitutes. You use the same cleaners as you would cleaning your centerfire rifle. The breechplug is the hardest thing to cleanup because of the 209 primers. The primers are dirtier than the powder is.
MCgunner
Member
Yeah, I've heard the drill bit thing. I bought my CVA Wolf in spring of 2010, I remember well because my wife was dying in a hospital in Sugar Land at the time and I kept buying stuff to get my mind off it for even a little bit. That Wolf shoots quite well with 777 and I'm happy with 777 in that gun.
Now, the Hawken Hunter Carbine has a 1:24 twist. It's really too tight IMHO. Pills have to be heavy or they will not shoot well. That gun is very picky, too, as to propellant. It shoots well with Pyrodex and the 385 grain Great Plains bullet, but I tried 777 in it and it just does not like that powder for some reason. With Pyrodex, it'll put 'em into 2-3" at 100 yards, not so with 777. So, the whole experiment may go for naught if it doesn't group BH209 well, but I kinda like the idea of 209 priming anyway, so no loss IMHO. The gizmo I had on it worked, for small rifle primers, kept ignition reliable with Pyrodex, but I think 209 primers are an upgrade.
If it DOES work with BH209, it'll be easier to live with not having to swab the barrel after every shot or two.
I think the twist rate on my Wolf is 1:32 and it shoots that same 385 grain pill quite well and it's way less picky about load than the Hawken. I'm not sure what 1:24 ain't TOO danged fast, but it works with the right load.
Funny, but I went to the Cabela's site to see if I could link the "Hunter Carbine". It ain't there. They must have dropped it. All I could find was traditions and pedersoli. The hunter carbine was made by "Investarms". They still offered it a few years back. I bought the thing about 25 years ago, got a left hand version which they quit offering.
Now, the Hawken Hunter Carbine has a 1:24 twist. It's really too tight IMHO. Pills have to be heavy or they will not shoot well. That gun is very picky, too, as to propellant. It shoots well with Pyrodex and the 385 grain Great Plains bullet, but I tried 777 in it and it just does not like that powder for some reason. With Pyrodex, it'll put 'em into 2-3" at 100 yards, not so with 777. So, the whole experiment may go for naught if it doesn't group BH209 well, but I kinda like the idea of 209 priming anyway, so no loss IMHO. The gizmo I had on it worked, for small rifle primers, kept ignition reliable with Pyrodex, but I think 209 primers are an upgrade.
If it DOES work with BH209, it'll be easier to live with not having to swab the barrel after every shot or two.I think the twist rate on my Wolf is 1:32 and it shoots that same 385 grain pill quite well and it's way less picky about load than the Hawken. I'm not sure what 1:24 ain't TOO danged fast, but it works with the right load.
Funny, but I went to the Cabela's site to see if I could link the "Hunter Carbine". It ain't there. They must have dropped it. All I could find was traditions and pedersoli. The hunter carbine was made by "Investarms". They still offered it a few years back. I bought the thing about 25 years ago, got a left hand version which they quit offering.
Awsome! Thanks!
One thing i hate about muzzle loading is the need to clean the guns as soon as your done with them. Sounds like i need to try a little harder to find some BH.
MCgunner
Member
The BP world is funny. There are the hunters as most here are who want a muzzle loader that's legal for the muzzleloader season, but is as close to a modern cartridge rifle as possible. This is why products like BH209 have a market. THEN, there are folks, lots of 'em over on the BP forum, that are enthusiasts and want things as close to authentic as possible. BH209 is about as popular as a lion at a wildebeest convention with those guys. No smoke? BLASPHEMY! 
I can see both sides of it as I'm both a hunter and a BP enthusiast.
Those guys over there, many of 'em, HATE any substitute powder. If it ain't holy black, it shouldn't be allowed to exist. Well, ya know, I shoot a lot of Pyrodex because black powder doesn't exist around here. No, I don't have any buddies I can order 300 lbs of the stuff with to make the hasmat fees worth it. No, I ain't drivin' 150 miles just for a few pounds of it. I shot nothing, but before the gooberment came down on the shipping and storage of BP and before Pyrodex was invented. It was cool when you could go to your gun shop and just grab a can of DuPont or Goex off the shelf. BP has one quality I quite admire, it ignites easily with the weakest of ignition systems. No substitute, let alone BH209, can hope to compete with that. Sidelocks were designed around BP. I can't get my sidelocks to pop consistently even with Pyrodex, thus the 209 primer adapter for the nipple.
I do wish I could easily get BP affordably without hazmat fees, but I can't. Fortunately Pyrodex DOES work in my revolvers and I do have a conversion cylinder for my '58 Remmy to allow me to shoot .45 ACP in it.
Clean up doesn't bother me. The loading routine doesn't bother me. I like shooting BP. What I bought that can of BH209 for is the one thing I don't like about shooting front stuffer rifled muskets, the fact that the barrel must be swabbed between every couple of shots. It ain't so bad now that my rifle range shooting bench is 30 yards from my back porch, but it was a bit of a pain when I had to drive to the gun range. Still, if I can get this BH209 to shoot in that Hawken, that'd be awesome.
I can see both sides of it as I'm both a hunter and a BP enthusiast. Those guys over there, many of 'em, HATE any substitute powder. If it ain't holy black, it shouldn't be allowed to exist. Well, ya know, I shoot a lot of Pyrodex because black powder doesn't exist around here. No, I don't have any buddies I can order 300 lbs of the stuff with to make the hasmat fees worth it. No, I ain't drivin' 150 miles just for a few pounds of it. I shot nothing, but before the gooberment came down on the shipping and storage of BP and before Pyrodex was invented. It was cool when you could go to your gun shop and just grab a can of DuPont or Goex off the shelf. BP has one quality I quite admire, it ignites easily with the weakest of ignition systems. No substitute, let alone BH209, can hope to compete with that. Sidelocks were designed around BP. I can't get my sidelocks to pop consistently even with Pyrodex, thus the 209 primer adapter for the nipple.
I do wish I could easily get BP affordably without hazmat fees, but I can't. Fortunately Pyrodex DOES work in my revolvers and I do have a conversion cylinder for my '58 Remmy to allow me to shoot .45 ACP in it.
Clean up doesn't bother me. The loading routine doesn't bother me. I like shooting BP. What I bought that can of BH209 for is the one thing I don't like about shooting front stuffer rifled muskets, the fact that the barrel must be swabbed between every couple of shots. It ain't so bad now that my rifle range shooting bench is 30 yards from my back porch, but it was a bit of a pain when I had to drive to the gun range.
Still, if I can get this BH209 to shoot in that Hawken, that'd be awesome. Well I left my gun uncleaned for about 2 weeks after 10 shots of blackhorn 209 and cracked the barrel open today and thought what a mess I'm going to have on my hands! I soaked a cotton shotgun patch in hopps #9, wrapped it around the 50cal jag and pushed it from muzzle to breech and the patch had a giant circle of gobbed powder. I looked down the barrel and not a stich of powder and ran 2 patches down the bore and clean as a whistle. I mainly purchased it for the cleanliness and the accuracy so the velocity is just an extra. No more messy water, soap, cleaners, brushes, etc.
No more messy water, soap, cleaners, brushes, etc.
DKSDonnie
Member
Well I left my gun uncleaned for about 2 weeks after 10 shots of blackhorn 209 and cracked the barrel open today and thought what a mess I'm going to have on my hands! I soaked a cotton shotgun patch in hopps #9, wrapped it around the 50cal jag and pushed it from muzzle to breech and the patch had a giant circle of gobbed powder. I looked down the barrel and not a stich of powder and ran 2 patches down the bore and clean as a whistle. I mainly purchased it for the cleanliness and the accuracy so the velocity is just an extra.
Got to LOVE IT! And it didn't leave any pitting either!
DKSDonnie
Member
Oh, and a word of advice. If when you're done cleaning and you run a patch of oil down the barrel to protect it while not in use or at years end. make sure you run a couple dry patches down the barrel before you load next time. I did that once, not thinking about it all and didn't run a patch down the barrel to clean the excess oil out of the barrel and when I pulled down on deer and pulled the trigger, it wouldn't fire. The BH209 absorbed all the oil in the barrel or it just had an oil barrier between the powder and the breech plug and when I pushed the sabot down the barrel I'm sure it really pushed the oil down the barrel and it wouldn't fire. After about 4 209 primers it spit the sabot out about 10 yds away and made a tiny spark out the end of the barrel. Lesson learned.
MCgunner
Member
I've always lubed before storage with bore butter. Not sure how THAT works with BH209, though.
MCgunner
Member
Well, I got that 209 adapter in for my Hawken Hunter Carbine and installed it. I found that a Lee number 3.1 scoop held 32.5 grains by weight, so I doubled that for 65 grains by weight of BH209. Loaded it up with a 385 grain Great Plains and went out back to 40 yards from an empty cat litter bottle and fired, hit it square at the top of the blade. AWEsome! Now, I need to chronograph it and test it on my 100 yard range....maybe when things warm up and dry out a bit. Today ain't the day. I'm excited, though, it actually went bang. It never did that in the inline, just dudded. I gotta admit I was skeptical, but it says in the literature this thing will work with BH209. I'm not real sure how accurate the stuff is gonna be at 100 yards, but if that bottle had been a deer, I'd be eatin' venison.
I'm excited, though, it actually went bang. It never did that in the inline, just dudded. I gotta admit I was skeptical, but it says in the literature this thing will work with BH209. I'm not real sure how accurate the stuff is gonna be at 100 yards, but if that bottle had been a deer, I'd be eatin' venison.
DKSDonnie
Member
Well, I got that 209 adapter in for my Hawken Hunter Carbine and installed it. I found that a Lee number 3.1 scoop held 32.5 grains by weight, so I doubled that for 65 grains by weight of BH209. Loaded it up with a 385 grain Great Plains and went out back to 40 yards from an empty cat litter bottle and fired, hit it square at the top of the blade. AWEsome! Now, I need to chronograph it and test it on my 100 yard range....maybe when things warm up and dry out a bit. Today ain't the day.
You have to use 209 primers on BH or it won't fire reliably. Glad it worked for you. Find the right powder to bullet combo and you'll have no problem with accuracy. You will enjoy the cleanup, no hang fires in the rain or snow and no pitted barrels. Enjoy. Might want to wait until it warms up to freezing temps. You might freeze to the bench in these temps.
MCgunner
Member
It ain't TOO bad down here, but never got over 38 degrees today and that's just danged cold for this south Texas boy. I went out today only to check the antifreeze on the vehicles. Supposed to be a hard freeze next 3 nights. They're talking snow flurries tomorrow. WOW, two snows in a winter. I haven't seen THAT since 1973 and I was in College Station, 100 miles north, at that time. This has not been the best of winters to be outside shooting. LOL I got my deer before all this hit. I'm glad I don't have to sit in the box blind even with a heater in this weather. Nothing much moving, anyway. Late in the season and the rut's long since over.
- Status
