My 1911-380 issues, troubleshooting, progress

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How much you want for it? ;)
Not for sale! Lol! :)
In all seriousness, Ive had the PPK, SIG P320, Bersa and Colt 1908- all blowbacks and they all had issues of one type or another. My buddy has the Browning (Beretta) BDA .380 and he has never had a single malfunction, though the money people are asking for these is shocking these days.
In the locked breech catagory, Ive owned the .380 SIG P250C, P238, Colt Mustang, and now the ..380 Govt.
All these were reliable feeders- I carried the Mustang for years in an ankle rig. But the Govt. Model, IMHO, is the best. Zero malfunctions, just big enough grip and 7+1 capacity. Plus it just like looks badass!:D
My only gripes, and they are mostly cosmetic, are the cheesey plastic guide rod and trigger. The guide rod is an easy fix, but the trigger is a little more involved.
 
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Interesting to have that comparison, and it makes sense since I understood locked-breech to be an asset as well. The strange thing is, the Browning 1911-380 is locked-breech. So they must have really missed the boat in the design... And likewise, my alternative that I've been looking at is the RIA Baby Rock 380, which I initially avoided because it is blowback (and slightly less attractive), but I hear nothing but good things about it, compared to the plethora of complaints about the Browning.

Anyway, thanks for the info!
 
The Browning magazines just need full length bullets...and aren't unique in this regard as many other brands will choke on short (or too long) ammo. If it runs reliably with one brand of ammo that is loaded at or close to max length...then I'd say it's design is fine and just needs that length of bullet. It would be nice if every gun could digest any bullet within the caliber designation, but this isn't the case with some being more fussy about length than others. The real answer is handloading where you control things like seating depth and can tailor the rounds to what the gun wants for perfect functionality.:)
 
Thank you Rob. Since you seem to have some knowledge in this area (and I know nothing about reloading), maybe you could answer a question.

I read that it is common, or even "standard procedure" for manufacturers to load at just over minimum OAL. IF THAT IS TRUE (which maybe you can answer), then I guess my question is "Why?" since it sounds like that is a good way to cause reliability issues.

But I appreciate your input, and it sounds like the next step would be to buy a variety of manufacturers and test OAL and stick with the ones that are loaded long. (OR....start reloading).

My last question for you, Rob, is whether you think the bullet weight could contribute as well, or if you think it is primarily a length issue. Only asking because the PMC, which was loaded full length and functioned 100%, also happened to be the lightest at 90gr.

Wanting to make sure I'm not barking up the OAL tree when I should be paying attention to grains instead.
 
I feel your pain. I considered a Brownimg but opted for the Rock island .380 because of the $ and it is all steel. I have a RI 1911A1 9mm that has never failed. My experience with the Baby Rock has been without any adverse events. Manual suggests 500 rds for break in and I am half way there.
I just bought a Llama 'Especial' .380 vintage 1967 (proof mark is M * 1) and it is a true 70 series (barrel lugs)1911 scaled down so I have avoided the Browning
I hope your pistol gets better
 
Thank you Rob. Since you seem to have some knowledge in this area (and I know nothing about reloading), maybe you could answer a question.

I read that it is common, or even "standard procedure" for manufacturers to load at just over minimum OAL. IF THAT IS TRUE (which maybe you can answer), then I guess my question is "Why?" since it sounds like that is a good way to cause reliability issues.

But I appreciate your input, and it sounds like the next step would be to buy a variety of manufacturers and test OAL and stick with the ones that are loaded long. (OR....start reloading).

My last question for you, Rob, is whether you think the bullet weight could contribute as well, or if you think it is primarily a length issue. Only asking because the PMC, which was loaded full length and functioned 100%, also happened to be the lightest at 90gr.

Wanting to make sure I'm not barking up the OAL tree when I should be paying attention to grains instead.

Bullet manufacturers have their reasons for loading what they do the way they do, and much of it has to do with bullet nose profile and what is needed for proper feeding. A large hollow-point must normally be loaded a good bit shorter than ball due to where it contacts the feed ramp. If you put ball and HP ammo side by side on a comparator, the profiles will often be very similar with the HP being about the same as the ball with the nose cut off. Blackening the ball then feeding it will show where the nose actually contacts the ramp and it's well down on the bullet so the tip does little except space the bullets in the magazine and keep them securely to the rear.

The KelTec P-32 is notorious for rimlocking with HP ammo because they're loaded so short. There is nothing to keep them properly to the rear of the mag so they creep forward with recoil and end up with the top one over the next one down, and being a semi-rimmed round it can't be pushed past when trying to feed so it ties up the gun. The solution is to either run full length ball which properly fits the magazine, or install a spacer at the front of the mag to take up the extra space and prevent the rounds from moving forward under recoil.

Your Browning sounds to be in about the same boat...but not from rimlock but from the necessity of having fairly short feed lips to control the feed angle which then loses control of the last round/s after they shuffle forward due to recoil. My 712 Mauser magazines were made for 7.63 but the gun is in 9mm...so it does the same thing as your Browning. Kind of funny to see it spit the empty and a couple or three loaded rounds with every shot!:) I just use the longest ball I can find which work semi-OK or even better load my own at a much longer length which then fits the mag well enough to ensure proper functioning.

Your options sound like either using a full length round that fits the magazine or perhaps if you want to run shorter varieties you could add a spacer to accomplish the same thing of keeping the rounds to the rear and fully engaged in the feed lips.
 
Bullet manufacturers have their reasons for loading what they do the way they do, and much of it has to do with bullet nose profile and what is needed for proper feeding. A large hollow-point must normally be loaded a good bit shorter than ball due to where it contacts the feed ramp. If you put ball and HP ammo side by side on a comparator, the profiles will often be very similar with the HP being about the same as the ball with the nose cut off. Blackening the ball then feeding it will show where the nose actually contacts the ramp and it's well down on the bullet so the tip does little except space the bullets in the magazine and keep them securely to the rear.

The KelTec P-32 is notorious for rimlocking with HP ammo because they're loaded so short. There is nothing to keep them properly to the rear of the mag so they creep forward with recoil and end up with the top one over the next one down, and being a semi-rimmed round it can't be pushed past when trying to feed so it ties up the gun. The solution is to either run full length ball which properly fits the magazine, or install a spacer at the front of the mag to take up the extra space and prevent the rounds from moving forward under recoil.

Your Browning sounds to be in about the same boat...but not from rimlock but from the necessity of having fairly short feed lips to control the feed angle which then loses control of the last round/s after they shuffle forward due to recoil. My 712 Mauser magazines were made for 7.63 but the gun is in 9mm...so it does the same thing as your Browning. Kind of funny to see it spit the empty and a couple or three loaded rounds with every shot!:) I just use the longest ball I can find which work semi-OK or even better load my own at a much longer length which then fits the mag well enough to ensure proper functioning.

Your options sound like either using a full length round that fits the magazine or perhaps if you want to run shorter varieties you could add a spacer to accomplish the same thing of keeping the rounds to the rear and fully engaged in the feed lips.

Rob: Thank you VERY much for this explanation. Makes my baffling problem make so much more sense. And it also makes it a bit more clear why Browning can't seem to fix the problem, since it is sort of intrinsic to the design. I appreciate you taking the time. Now to stock up on PMC for the time being...
 
I am following this pretty closely because the Browning 1911-380 is on my shortlist. In large part due to the grip safety, that the 380 Government model and the Kimber Micro 380 lack. The good news is that I live about fifty miles from Browning HQ. So, if I get a dud, I can just keep taking it back.

Has there been any real difference in reliability noted between the standard and the compact model (that should be a poll, when I get closer to making a purchase it will probably be posted as such)?
 
I am following this pretty closely because the Browning 1911-380 is on my shortlist. In large part due to the grip safety, that the 380 Government model and the Kimber Micro 380 lack. The good news is that I live about fifty miles from Browning HQ. So, if I get a dud, I can just keep taking it back.

Has there been any real difference in reliability noted between the standard and the compact model (that should be a poll, when I get closer to making a purchase it will probably be posted as such)?

Mine have all been "full-size" (if you want to call it that) and not the compact. I'll also report that since my initial woes, and ever since I discovered that mine prefers "long" ammo, I have had zero issues with it. None whatsoever. Except for one day, just out of curiosity, I put some of the old flat-nosed remingtons back through it and all the problems returned. But as long as I give it PMC or Prvi Partizan or something like that, it's 100%.

I'd also like to add that you could consider the RIA Baby Rock .380, as others have mentioned, but I did acquire one of those and hated it. It is blowback, so the recoil, to me, was hugely different. The Browning was incredibly soft in comparison. Also, the sights on the Browning are much more to my liking.

All in all, very happy with it these days, having left my issues far behind me.
 
I'd also like to add that you could consider the RIA Baby Rock .380, as others have mentioned, but I did acquire one of those and hated it. It is blowback, so the recoil, to me, was hugely different. The Browning was incredibly soft in comparison. Also, the sights on the Browning are much more to my liking.

All in all, very happy with it these days, having left my issues far behind me.

I was able to look at the Browning 1911-380, the Baby Rock, and the Llama (amd my Kimber Micro 380) all side to side at a gun store. Frankly, in the appearance of quality, the Browning is leagues ahead of the the Baby Rock, and the Llama (at the price, it should be). The Browning is also significantly lighter and uses a delayed system instead of being straight blowback, like the Baby Rock, and the Llama.

The Baby Rock had been on my list until I actually saw it. It isn't a copy of the 380 Government Model, it is a copy of the Llama.

I am very glad you followed up with the report of high reliability. Here is a section of a post I made as I mulled the Browning 1911-380 through my head. Again, thank you for following up.

. . .
I ask because I like the Browning 1911-380 and have been going back and forth on it for almost a year.

First, I like 9x17 as a cartridge. As such "it's only a 380" will not mean a lot to me. I reload 9x17, I have several years experience with it and am aware of the weaknesses, and strengths, of the 9x17. I am satisfied with it.

IMG_20170728_120213559_1.jpg

For several years I carried my Colt 380 Government Model. Things I liked, it is a very good sized pistol. It shot well and, with the right magazines, was very reliable. It also has the best trigger I have experienced on a 9x17(light and crisp) . Things I didn't like: I sometimes found the safety off, the sights are terrible, and it is now an out of production gun, which limits parts availability. The safety, I was not the only person that experienced this. Once we started paying attention to this, several others who carried the same model reported this same issue. It is a series 80 pistol; so, as odd as it sounds, it wasn't a show stopper.

The sights are an issue. They are just not too good and I am close to thirty years older than I was when I got it. I know I can send it to Novak and get good sights put on it. That brings me to the third issue, it has been out of production for many years and is going to continue to be harder to get parts for. I don't want to chop the slide up for sights, drill out the safety for more positive action, when these are parts that cannot be replaced. I just feel it is time for this one to be on the range and in my safe, not on my belt.

Glock_42_w_grip_tape_slide_release_sights.jpg

In the meantime I purchased a Glock 42. A thousand rounds or so through it, using a Mantis shot analyzer, and I am now at a level that I am satisfied with it. I think you can see that I added things to it. Those would include, grip tape, Glock Nite sights (I don't recommend them), extended slide release, I also had some trigger work done to get it to within factory specs.

This is my current EDC. I shoot it well, it is reliable and accurate, I just don't like it. It is a random tool. Yes, it works well. There is just a lack of something. I would not hesitate to recommend a Glock 42; I guess it is just a little too utilitarian. I don't know, it just isn't a gun to get enthused about.

IMG_20171224_055339460.jpg

I then purchased a Kimber Micro 380. First off, I really like the size, the look, and the sights. If it had a grip safety, it would be "The Gun." It had reliability trouble out of the box and I had to do some file work to get it right (This should come as no surprise to other Kimber owners). At this point it is reliable. I now have over five hundred rounds with no stoppages.

It is accurate, I attribute that to the single action trigger (still not as good as my 30 year old Colt though) and the great sights. The sights were the reason I went for the Kimber over the similar Colt Mustang (I just didn't like the angular look of the similar Sig).

The recoil is a bit snappier than the Glock 42, I attribute that to the narrower grip on the Kimber. This one still may become a favorite. However, I still haven't taken it through any official firing course. It still may become my EDC, as far as liking it, I definitely like it better than the Glock 42; but that is entirely subjective (It isn't a "plastic gun" thing. My favorites also includes my braced CZ Scorpion EVO 3 S1, which is a plastic 9x19). As I said before; If it had a grip safety, it would be "The Gun."

That led to me visiting a gun store and looking at the Browning 1911-380. Frankly, I liked it. It had the grip safety (the grip safety thing may just be a holdover from the standard 1911, but I just feel that it should be there), it just felt like quality. I was able to compare, side to side, the Baby Rock, the LLama 380, my Kimber, and the Browning. That being said, the store did not have a range.

Of the three, the LLama 380, the Baby Rock, and the 1911-380, if I had been told to put them in order of price, it would have been easy. The 1911-380 was leagues ahead of the other two in oeral feeling of quality, "fit and finish" as it were. The Baby Rock looked better than the LLama, but still nowhere near the more expensive Browning and Limber. Further, the Baby Rock and the LLama appear to be blowback, where the others use some form of delay.

So, with all that said, did you get a 1911-380? If so, what do you think of it?
There are four basic configurations, with and without a rail, and the standard and commander length barrel. I am, pretty well, in the "no rail" camp. I just don't like the way they look and I cannot see myself mounting a light on a pistol.

As far as standard, or compact length, I am leaning toward compact. Yet, I am not sure, as it is already a compact pistol. Thoughts and experiences of 1911-380 owners would be appreciated.

Browning_Black_Label_1911-380_Medallion_Pro_Full_Size_-_05191249.jpg
1911-380 Black Label Medallion Pro, from here

Browning_Black_Label_1911-380_Medallion_Pro_Compact_-_051913492.jpg
1911-380 Black Label Medallion Pro Compact, from here

Yes, I know there are several different cosmetic "styles" this just happens to be the "style" that I like.

As I said, any thoughts?
 
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