My editorial nearly got me "banned" from work
- Thread starter walking arsenal
- Start date
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Ain't that the truth. I've had an unsurly encounter with co-worker who have tried to get me fired simply because I refused to bow down to her domineering attitude. Entirely not gun related, but my lack of a Pearl Harbor file was to my detriment and it got me moved to another department.
A long time co-worker stated it in these terms. "You found a hornets nest, reported it to management, and management sprayed you in the face with the bug spray." Since I was moved it has only gone to prove that the issue was the other individual, and not me, I got in trouble for having the cojones to simply point it out. I'd been mentioning it politely for over two years, finally I got pissed and said something on the edge of condescending. Mind you, I've said worse things to better people with them saying nothing more than, "oh yeah, get bent yourself buddy" and we laughed and went back to work. But big corporations work in funny ways (few of them good) and HR really doesn't care what you think. 1-1/2 years later I'm getting rave reviews from my colleagues and supervisors, this person is getting turned down for other jobs and having the whole team I used to work with align against her, and rightfully so. Please take a moment to cover your backside.
My point is, I had a legitimate discrimination and harrassment suit had I kept a file. An issue that would have my cruising THR without the burden of paying my mortgage by still working for said corporation, honestly. It may be a menial job to you because your not banking a lot of coin, but it still is a legitimate issue that you should document in case you have to cross swords with this batty lady again. History is the best indicator of future performance. We are talking about a pattern of behavior here. She is creating the hostile work environment, not you. Make sure the bug spray, should it come out, is rightly pointed at the proper recipient. A Pearl Harbor file will insure this.
jeepmor
Librarian
Member
AStone
Member
Good letter, WA.
Thx for standing up.
Thx for standing up.
Waitone
Member
That kind of nonsense continues because your average, garden variety humanoid just wants to be left alone to operate their own lives by their own measures to their own standards. Live-and-let-live may not be the smartest philosophy when your society enables predators to inflict injury on you.
Only you can make the choice but you might consider at least a pearl harbor file and a witnessed conversation sprinkled with terms like "hostile work environment" and "offended" and "for the chilren". Right that have not been defended are abandoned.
Only you can make the choice but you might consider at least a pearl harbor file and a witnessed conversation sprinkled with terms like "hostile work environment" and "offended" and "for the chilren". Right that have not been defended are abandoned.
walking arsenal
Member
I liked to shoot and often voiced my opinion on how inaccurate some of the anchors stories were on certain subjects regarding freedoms. It pissed off some people and when it came time to lay people off I was on the short list because of it.
I was a republican in the liberal media, need i say more?
I was a republican in the liberal media, need i say more?
GhostlyKarliion
Member
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2006
- Messages
- 426
My standard reaction to that kind of blasphemy is:
"Sir/Madam, you have nothing to fear from me, that is, unless you intend to harm the innocent. Whether I have a firearm or not, the only people who need to fear me are those who have set in their hearts to do evil to their fellow man." (Yes, I actually talk like that when explaining this)
Then usually I proceed to press the issue "Do you intend to hurt any of these kids?"
"What? No, of course not!"
"Really? Why else would you be concerned about my having a gun? If you weren’t going to hurt someone you wouldn't care if I could stop you or not"
(And while they are trying to regain their composure)
"I think I need to bring this to the attention of (your boss/security, whatever's applicable) right away, excuse me"
And if at all possible walk away in a hurried fashion.
I'll quote one of my heroes, "People need dramatic examples to shake them out of apathy." (The character, not the man, sheesh) until people see the gun haters as the "bad guys" then things will never change. Keep writing the letters Walking Arsenal, it makes a bigger impact than you think.
"Sir/Madam, you have nothing to fear from me, that is, unless you intend to harm the innocent. Whether I have a firearm or not, the only people who need to fear me are those who have set in their hearts to do evil to their fellow man." (Yes, I actually talk like that when explaining this)
Then usually I proceed to press the issue "Do you intend to hurt any of these kids?"
"What? No, of course not!"
"Really? Why else would you be concerned about my having a gun? If you weren’t going to hurt someone you wouldn't care if I could stop you or not"
(And while they are trying to regain their composure)
"I think I need to bring this to the attention of (your boss/security, whatever's applicable) right away, excuse me"
And if at all possible walk away in a hurried fashion.
I'll quote one of my heroes, "People need dramatic examples to shake them out of apathy." (The character, not the man, sheesh) until people see the gun haters as the "bad guys" then things will never change. Keep writing the letters Walking Arsenal, it makes a bigger impact than you think.
Well done, actually seemed like a very measured and unemotional response... that's why she hated it so much. All of the anti arguments are based in pure emotion, you start throwing facts up and they can only react with emotion, because they don't have the facts on their side.
I talk guns all the time where I work, even with my boss. I only get in trouble for talking to myself. There are advantages for being self employed
I talk guns all the time where I work, even with my boss. I only get in trouble for talking to myself. There are advantages for being self employed
+1
The last firm I worked for was a haven for the PC crowd. Any controversial subject was accepted as appropriate "water-cooler" talk as long as everyone was on the PC/liberal side. I let it slip once that I was an NRA member they looked at me as if I just clubbed a baby seal-- THEN I got a call to the director's office (fortunately, he couldn't have cared less).
This was one of the guiding factors for starting my own firm when I left that firm.
--John
You know, and in all seriousness, she has engaged in harassment of you based on two issues, but then, you already know that.
Even though I instruct in a private, graduate institution, I speak freely and openly of my hunting experiences, my collection of firearms and my RKBA. I make sure to insert into the conversation, the fact of it being a Constitutional right. Any time that one of the fool-antis even start to stir, I assure them that I would be glad to give up my RKBA the day after the Antis give up their Constitutional rights of free assembly and free speech. Then again, at that point, since they would no longer be able to contest my gun ownership, I would probably change my mind, keep my firearms, and what could they do about it?
I find it ironic at best, that we firearms owners, are afraid of non-gun owners taking away our firearms from us. Please let the full reality and accuracy of this parting comment sink-in. The firearms owners, are afraid of the non-gun owners taking away their firearms.
I really do need to buy Bernard Goldberg's new book: "Crazies to the Left of Me; Wimps to the Right: How One Side Lost Its Mind and The Other Lost Its Nerve". Maybe you should buy a copy of it and send it to this woman.
Even though I instruct in a private, graduate institution, I speak freely and openly of my hunting experiences, my collection of firearms and my RKBA. I make sure to insert into the conversation, the fact of it being a Constitutional right. Any time that one of the fool-antis even start to stir, I assure them that I would be glad to give up my RKBA the day after the Antis give up their Constitutional rights of free assembly and free speech. Then again, at that point, since they would no longer be able to contest my gun ownership, I would probably change my mind, keep my firearms, and what could they do about it?
I find it ironic at best, that we firearms owners, are afraid of non-gun owners taking away our firearms from us. Please let the full reality and accuracy of this parting comment sink-in. The firearms owners, are afraid of the non-gun owners taking away their firearms.
I really do need to buy Bernard Goldberg's new book: "Crazies to the Left of Me; Wimps to the Right: How One Side Lost Its Mind and The Other Lost Its Nerve". Maybe you should buy a copy of it and send it to this woman.
ZeSpectre
Member
Document EVERYTHING! Maybe it won't matter now but maybe somebody gets in a twist down the road and you need evidence to show a longer chain of harassment.
Make that "Harbor" file and keep it up to date. This isn't about a minimum wage camp job, it's about someone having holes poked in their "security blanket" (delusion in this case) and people like that will go to some pretty bizzare extremes to make themselves "feel" safe again so you need to watch your six.
Make that "Harbor" file and keep it up to date. This isn't about a minimum wage camp job, it's about someone having holes poked in their "security blanket" (delusion in this case) and people like that will go to some pretty bizzare extremes to make themselves "feel" safe again so you need to watch your six.
S.P.E.C.T.R.E.
Member
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2006
- Messages
- 244
I work in a pretty gun-tolerant environment. Don't get me wrong, I can't carry a firearm into the office or anything, but several of us talk very openly about our hobby. In fact, a particularly troublesome piece of equipment was replaced recently, and I offered to fill it full of 8mm holes and give it to the manager to display in his cube, which he did. Also, I openly buy reloads from one of the machine builders here.
I consider myself to be lucky, as there are quite a few companies out there that have zero tolerance for gun talk.
I consider myself to be lucky, as there are quite a few companies out there that have zero tolerance for gun talk.
tinygnat219
Member
zespectre,
Good points. It might also help to tone down the "rhetoric" if you actually do talk guns at work. Take down the usual suspects like the perfect score targets, the AK-47 diagram in russian, any gun magazines lying around. Do what I did, replace with pictures of family, nice scenery, etc.
That way, they can't point to something in your workspace as being "uncomfortable".
Good points. It might also help to tone down the "rhetoric" if you actually do talk guns at work. Take down the usual suspects like the perfect score targets, the AK-47 diagram in russian, any gun magazines lying around. Do what I did, replace with pictures of family, nice scenery, etc.
That way, they can't point to something in your workspace as being "uncomfortable".
Walking Arsenal, please keep a Pearl harbor file. A long time from now, in a galaxy far away, you may need documentation that shows that you did not lose a summer camp job because you were/are an irrational gun-crazed maniac. After all it's for the children.
Lonestar49
Member
Kill her with Kindness
...
WA, nice writing, good read, and to the point, and with facts and honesty.
And to any with just a "touch" of common sense" it would open a door to the thought-process, of such, to make an educated decision on gun-control.
However, on the other side of the coin, you have your lady-type, closed minded, uneducated, runs to the nearest feel-good-station, or quick band-aid fix, solution-center.
My only suggestion to you is; kill her with "kindness".. Yep, be nice to her, as she won't expect it, let alone, understand it, yet, it will dawn on her that something is amiss and, she will eventually see that it was her knee-jerk reaction and statements to you, and your boss, even if it's only the mirror she looks in every day .. is the only person to talk back to her in truth.
Kill her with Kindness, and enjoy it..
LS
...
WA, nice writing, good read, and to the point, and with facts and honesty.
And to any with just a "touch" of common sense" it would open a door to the thought-process, of such, to make an educated decision on gun-control.
However, on the other side of the coin, you have your lady-type, closed minded, uneducated, runs to the nearest feel-good-station, or quick band-aid fix, solution-center.
My only suggestion to you is; kill her with "kindness".. Yep, be nice to her, as she won't expect it, let alone, understand it, yet, it will dawn on her that something is amiss and, she will eventually see that it was her knee-jerk reaction and statements to you, and your boss, even if it's only the mirror she looks in every day .. is the only person to talk back to her in truth.
Kill her with Kindness, and enjoy it..
LS
I've had a couple experiences with people trying to "judge" me based on my firearms' enthusiasm.
The first, they left a WSJ article detailing the 10 characteristics of a workplace shooter. I thanked them for it, then complained that I was only up to 7. I promised to work harder to get the last three.
Another time, my boss mentioned that "some" in the office were concerned about my taking time off to go to shooting courses and the like. I counterd that I was concerned by the fact said people had reproduced.
Most have learned to leave me alone.
The first, they left a WSJ article detailing the 10 characteristics of a workplace shooter. I thanked them for it, then complained that I was only up to 7. I promised to work harder to get the last three.
Another time, my boss mentioned that "some" in the office were concerned about my taking time off to go to shooting courses and the like. I counterd that I was concerned by the fact said people had reproduced.
Most have learned to leave me alone.
Deanimator
Member
I don't have any such problems. I helped my boss buy his Springfield XD.
I once had a slimy, crypto-Klansman boss at a different job who kept discouraging me from doing my job, and actually demanded that I NOT keep copies of weekly reports, etc. I simply ignored him and literally BURIED him in documentation.
One week I was shooting in the Nationals when I came back to work to get my paycheck. When I got there, I found out that there was a problem with the access control system (which I programmed, and whose programming system I helped to develop). I learned that "David Duke" was running around telling everybody that we needed to start keeping user records ON PAPER, and programming the system using numeric keypads. He was also telling people that he had NO idea how the system was being administered and that I'd never sent him anything in writing. The supervisor with whom I developed the system told me what was going on. I snagged Duke's boss and had a LONG conversation with him. I told him that Klanboy was lying. I told him not only was there nothing wrong with the system that some minor housekeeping wouldn't fix in five minutes, but that I had copies of the DETAILED reports that I'd submitted, explaining EXACTLY how the system ran. A meeting with Duke, his boss and the supervising programmer was scheduled. I stated my intention to bring PRINTED copies of all of my reports. The meeting was mysteriously canceled. Shortly afterward, my supervision was split, with Duke continuing to mismanage security, and the programmer being my boss for computer matters. I continued to document EVERYTHING I did to an excruciating degree. My computer boss and I worked together as a closely knit team. Even before he became my boss, I regularly provided him inside information with which to sandbag burning cross boy. Duke wanted to kill the access control project I was working on, but he was stymied at every turn by his own stupidity and arrogance. The NASA security office desparately wanted the project to succeed so that they didn't have to program all of the access control systems by numeric codes on keypads and keep user records on lined paper. It went forward and succeeded at NASA and our building, with EVERYONE working against Duke. He was just too stupid and malicious to realize it.
Not too long after this, the Gulf War started and we started getting bomb threats... which Duke neglected to tell me about, even though I was the Facility Security Officer. I immediately recommended that the automatic opening of the employee door be terminated for security reasons. Duke refused.
I was in the basement of the building when everyone was herded into the lobby. I found out that there had been a bomb threat and that Duke had ordered everyone concentrated in the lobby... presumably to make them a better target for any Baathist with a Kalashnikov. Afterwards, I went to Duke's boss. I told him about the sheer insanity of keeping a bunch of people CONCENTRATED in one place during a bomb threat, without immediately sending them home. I then asked: 1. For what purpose did the Imperial Wizard not want there to be duplicate records of my work? 2. Were there any OTHER employees being told not to diligently do their jobs? Sheetboy's boss didn't have an answer.
I continued to document Duke's faux pas, including failure to recognize the need to clear the new acting GM (whose actual citizenship was NEVER verified before we lost the contract rebid and the whole thing became moot).
It just went on and on, from misogynistic and anti-Semitic comments in open meetings, to Duke lying to the Defense Investigative Service about being the Facility Security Officer and fraudulently signing for a STUIII secure phone. With the threat of lawsuit hanging over the company's head, I managed to hang on until the contract expired and somebody else took over, causing myself and a bunch of others to be layed off. Duke got the boot too, having given over $1,000,000 in security work away to another company without telling upper management and having ALL of his classified access at NASA curtailed because of his propensity to discuss classified in open meetings. Asked by the incoming contractor if they'd like Duke to hang on as the FSO in my place, NASA replied, and I quote, "GOD no!"
Duke ended up in Mississippi on another contract. Then the Jacobses of Cleveland (Jacobs Field) bought the company. I'm thinking they didn't care much for his Jewish jokes...
I once had a slimy, crypto-Klansman boss at a different job who kept discouraging me from doing my job, and actually demanded that I NOT keep copies of weekly reports, etc. I simply ignored him and literally BURIED him in documentation.
One week I was shooting in the Nationals when I came back to work to get my paycheck. When I got there, I found out that there was a problem with the access control system (which I programmed, and whose programming system I helped to develop). I learned that "David Duke" was running around telling everybody that we needed to start keeping user records ON PAPER, and programming the system using numeric keypads. He was also telling people that he had NO idea how the system was being administered and that I'd never sent him anything in writing. The supervisor with whom I developed the system told me what was going on. I snagged Duke's boss and had a LONG conversation with him. I told him that Klanboy was lying. I told him not only was there nothing wrong with the system that some minor housekeeping wouldn't fix in five minutes, but that I had copies of the DETAILED reports that I'd submitted, explaining EXACTLY how the system ran. A meeting with Duke, his boss and the supervising programmer was scheduled. I stated my intention to bring PRINTED copies of all of my reports. The meeting was mysteriously canceled. Shortly afterward, my supervision was split, with Duke continuing to mismanage security, and the programmer being my boss for computer matters. I continued to document EVERYTHING I did to an excruciating degree. My computer boss and I worked together as a closely knit team. Even before he became my boss, I regularly provided him inside information with which to sandbag burning cross boy. Duke wanted to kill the access control project I was working on, but he was stymied at every turn by his own stupidity and arrogance. The NASA security office desparately wanted the project to succeed so that they didn't have to program all of the access control systems by numeric codes on keypads and keep user records on lined paper. It went forward and succeeded at NASA and our building, with EVERYONE working against Duke. He was just too stupid and malicious to realize it.
Not too long after this, the Gulf War started and we started getting bomb threats... which Duke neglected to tell me about, even though I was the Facility Security Officer. I immediately recommended that the automatic opening of the employee door be terminated for security reasons. Duke refused.
I was in the basement of the building when everyone was herded into the lobby. I found out that there had been a bomb threat and that Duke had ordered everyone concentrated in the lobby... presumably to make them a better target for any Baathist with a Kalashnikov. Afterwards, I went to Duke's boss. I told him about the sheer insanity of keeping a bunch of people CONCENTRATED in one place during a bomb threat, without immediately sending them home. I then asked: 1. For what purpose did the Imperial Wizard not want there to be duplicate records of my work? 2. Were there any OTHER employees being told not to diligently do their jobs? Sheetboy's boss didn't have an answer.
I continued to document Duke's faux pas, including failure to recognize the need to clear the new acting GM (whose actual citizenship was NEVER verified before we lost the contract rebid and the whole thing became moot).
It just went on and on, from misogynistic and anti-Semitic comments in open meetings, to Duke lying to the Defense Investigative Service about being the Facility Security Officer and fraudulently signing for a STUIII secure phone. With the threat of lawsuit hanging over the company's head, I managed to hang on until the contract expired and somebody else took over, causing myself and a bunch of others to be layed off. Duke got the boot too, having given over $1,000,000 in security work away to another company without telling upper management and having ALL of his classified access at NASA curtailed because of his propensity to discuss classified in open meetings. Asked by the incoming contractor if they'd like Duke to hang on as the FSO in my place, NASA replied, and I quote, "GOD no!"
Duke ended up in Mississippi on another contract. Then the Jacobses of Cleveland (Jacobs Field) bought the company. I'm thinking they didn't care much for his Jewish jokes...
Ordinarily, I don't think much of lawsuits, believing they are designed to make lawyers rich(er). But a maybe 200 million dollar suit against that woman for harassment, intimidation, violation of rights, threats to employment, mental anguish, and a few more I will think of in a minute, might be a good idea.
Jim
Jim
First off, great letter. It was unemotional, logical, and straightforward. You really can't punch any holes in your letter save for maybe the last sentence where you blamed people who noticed the guy was a wacko earlier on. Your argument in the rest of the letter seems to be that the blame lies with Cho, not with anyone else or any inanimate object. Your last sentence seems to contradict that a bit. But besides that, it was really a great letter. Strong work, and congratulations on getting it published! That's quite a task in the anti-gun media.
Honestly, yes. This would be a great case to pursue on principal alone, even if it doesn't benefit you much. It would serve as case example and would help out others in the same situation in the future (or yourself down the road should things ever escalate or should this be referred back to by said crazy lady). The fact that it's a low-paying job that you don't seem too concerned about makes it even easier for you to pursue b/c you have less to lose.
This lady should be brought to task. It's easy to blow it off and not pursue it, but then it'll happen again to you or someone else. We, as firearms owners and enthusiasts, are a group who are totally and negatively discriminated against, though we receive no recognition as such. Cases like yours could give us the opportunity to change that. Cases like yours are what the anti-gunners use every day and what other groups who've been discriminated against have used to gain their recognition and legally protected status against discrimination. Why shouldn't we use the same? It's time we tip the scales in our favor.
Keep up the good work writing letters and being unafraid to voice your enthusiasm. We need more people like you.
Honestly, yes. This would be a great case to pursue on principal alone, even if it doesn't benefit you much. It would serve as case example and would help out others in the same situation in the future (or yourself down the road should things ever escalate or should this be referred back to by said crazy lady). The fact that it's a low-paying job that you don't seem too concerned about makes it even easier for you to pursue b/c you have less to lose.
This lady should be brought to task. It's easy to blow it off and not pursue it, but then it'll happen again to you or someone else. We, as firearms owners and enthusiasts, are a group who are totally and negatively discriminated against, though we receive no recognition as such. Cases like yours could give us the opportunity to change that. Cases like yours are what the anti-gunners use every day and what other groups who've been discriminated against have used to gain their recognition and legally protected status against discrimination. Why shouldn't we use the same? It's time we tip the scales in our favor.
Keep up the good work writing letters and being unafraid to voice your enthusiasm. We need more people like you.
orionengnr
Member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2005
- Messages
- 5,713
The irony of this is almost too perfect. Do you recall the VT administrator's statement about a year prior to the incident that having firearms on campus was not consistent with helping students, etc, "feel safe"?
Feeling safe and being safe are two entirely different things.
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