.38 Special
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- Joined
- Sep 15, 2006
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- 7,398
Wes, I'll get to the rest of your post as soon as I figure out what a "reverse-strawman" might be, and how I've been creating one.
Registration in itself is the antithesis to our right to bear arms since it requires the permission, or at least notification, of the government of where our guns are. Registration of guns, licenses to carry, etc. are, in my mind, an illegal search. (That search tends to lead to seizure.) There is no probable cause in requiring us to hand over our identity just because we choose to arm ourselves.
for some here, guns and the 2A ARE the #1 life and voting issue, and for some it is something else.The fact that it may SEEM to be the #1 issue with most gun owners may have more to due with the fact that guns are the #1 topic of discussion for the 75,000 members here, more than it has to do with it being an actual fact.
Weapons are a means to the end of securing our well-being; if we have our guns but not our well-being, then we've failed ourselves, and that cannot possibly be counted as a victory*.
Wes Janson said:The question at hand would seem to be whether or not the NRA-ILA considers the other Constitutional rights to be less important, or perhaps even expendable, in comparison to the Second. This is a particularly relevant question when you see the NRA-ILA strongly supporting candidates who have a horrible background in civil rights/corruption/partisanship, who also happen to be weak on gun control. The message sent is that other faults (save national scandal) can be overlooked so long as a politician just doesn't touch the issue of gun control, and maintains the status quo.
I agree that I dont think guns are anyone's ONLY issue. Thats why I didnt say that.I think perhaps your statement is incorrect; I can only hope that there exists no person on here whose only life issue is guns.
belus said:I'm liberal: I care about the whole Bill of Rights.
belus said:I'm concerned that the RKBA community gets so tied up in protecting their guns, that they forget about the importance of the Fourth. Who cares if your privately purchased AR or Glock is unknown or unregistered when the legal system can be circumvented by executive order and you can be secretly monitored?
Or what about the Fifth and Sixth? Yaser Esam Hamdi and Jose Padilla were enemy combatants and US Citizens at the same time. The power of a President (Republican or Democrat) to suspend such fundamental rights for whatever gain scares me much more than the thought of another 10 years under an AWB.
The RKBA community claims that the 2A is the foundational clause of the Bill of Rights. It seems like they're feverishly guarding the trunk of the tree while our government cuts all the branches.
rainbowbob said:I think one point the OP is making is that the NRA supports (as far as I know) only Republican candidates. You can argue that in most cases, only Republican candidates support 2A issues. OK. But the OP is suggesting, if I understand correctly, that the current Republican administration is responsible for a serious erosion of other constitutional rights - and that - as important as the 2A is - it is not the ONLY one we should be concerned about.
24 year old, white male, unmarried, no kids
I've owned guns since the day before my 13th birthday (H&R Topper in 20ga )
I own handguns, rifles and shotguns - for self defense and target shooting (I no longer hunt)
Democrat and member of the ACLU
Atheist/Agnostic
Completed college, but still a student
Under $25k/year
County population ~4 million
I'm disappointed that gun-rights have been allowed to become a partisan issue. This may not be a direct failing of the NRA-ILA, but I think it makes the gun-community weaker. We become dependent upon one party to look after our concerns, and popular opinion will never allow one side to hold power for long (thank god).
I feel like our gun-rights are eggs and all of them are in the Republican basket. This is a failing of the NRA-ILA. The alienation of more liberal gun owners (like myself) by supporting candidates they'll hate more than they love their guns is not a smart policy. I can't find reasons to join such an organization.
belus said:I feel like our gun-rights are eggs and all of them are in the Republican basket. This is a failing of the NRA-ILA.
I'm disappointed that gun-rights have been allowed to become a partisan issue. This may not be a direct failing of the NRA-ILA, but I think it makes the gun-community weaker. We become dependent upon one party to look after our concerns, and popular opinion will never allow one side to hold power for long (thank god).
I feel like our gun-rights are eggs and all of them are in the Republican basket. This is a failing of the NRA-ILA. The alienation of more liberal gun owners (like myself) by supporting candidates they'll hate more than they love their guns is not a smart policy. I can't find reasons to join such an organization.
That's right folks. There's a bunch of Christian fascists out there, and they want to take away all your rights!
I'm looking for a pro-2A organization that has a healthy respect for the rest of the Bill of Rights. One that might be willing to take a few short term hits in order to produce an overall better climate.Glenn Bartley said:If you want to join an organization for GUN RIGHTS then you join such an organization that specializes in those rights. To me it does not sound as if that is truly what you are seeking. If you want to join an organization that is a political club that covers the gamut of issues, then join one. That is not the NRA. So why moan and groan about them, if in fact you are looking for what amounts to a political party or political club that agrees with your politicl views; you most definitely are not looking solely for a gun rights orgainzation by what you described regardless of political affiliation.
That's a great suggestion, and one that should have occurred to me earlier.SuperNaut said:Cato?