No_Brakes23
Member
Well I was stationed in AZ and on deployment while most of these crap rules went down in Cali, so no mirror for me.
But here is some info on the NRA's efforts down here.
http://www.elcajongun.com/rules.htm#HSC
NRA Paradox
- Thread starter Rebar
- Start date
- Status
But here is some info on the NRA's efforts down here.
http://www.elcajongun.com/rules.htm#HSC
NineseveN
member
As was said earlier, the NRA fights battles they think they can win. Yay. Go team, go. Ra ra ra...
The only thing with some cajones that they have done as of late is pull out of Ohio over the AWB there.
I think they're too soft personally, and I feel abandoned by them shortly after they get my money every year. I let my membership lapse, I'm waiting for them to earn my cash this year.
The only thing with some cajones that they have done as of late is pull out of Ohio over the AWB there.
I think they're too soft personally, and I feel abandoned by them shortly after they get my money every year. I let my membership lapse, I'm waiting for them to earn my cash this year.
oct_97
Member
MountainPeak
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 503 "The fact of the matter is, MANY so-called 2nd Amendment advocates, only post on gun boards. They don't e-mail, they don't meet, send money, send letters, call, or even join orgs., that fight for their rights. If they did, we wouldn't be having this conversation. RECOGNIZE yourself? I thought so, but I've long ago gave up on you! You know who you are! Ya buddy, it's YOU!!! "
You are absolutly correct sir. I think that most people use the solicitations as an excuse not to belong or are ignorant to the fact that the NRA cannot use
your dues for poltical purposes. They MUST solicit in order to fight those that would take away our right to bear arms.
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 503 "The fact of the matter is, MANY so-called 2nd Amendment advocates, only post on gun boards. They don't e-mail, they don't meet, send money, send letters, call, or even join orgs., that fight for their rights. If they did, we wouldn't be having this conversation. RECOGNIZE yourself? I thought so, but I've long ago gave up on you! You know who you are! Ya buddy, it's YOU!!! "
You are absolutly correct sir. I think that most people use the solicitations as an excuse not to belong or are ignorant to the fact that the NRA cannot use
your dues for poltical purposes. They MUST solicit in order to fight those that would take away our right to bear arms.
All I can say about Mr. Vin Suprynowicz is that he's a writer. Writer's have the luxury of creating worlds that they like. He's also a professional editorialist which means he gets paid to write his opinions. Must be nice. I find all editorial writers to be irritating, regardless of their political affiliation.They go on and on about how we should do this and shouldn't do that. Meanwhile the rest of us live in the real world. One can never be sure about the person who is the writer.
It's well and good to talk about no compromise, no politics. Fine. Read your history and see what happens to the never say die, never compromise folks. They may be a problem for awhile, but eventually their cause is lost, they end up dead and history remembers them as monsters. And this applies to our history as well. The Constitution and Bill of Rights was a compromise, not a triumph of the die-hards.
I'm a member of the NRA and I'm proud of it.
It's well and good to talk about no compromise, no politics. Fine. Read your history and see what happens to the never say die, never compromise folks. They may be a problem for awhile, but eventually their cause is lost, they end up dead and history remembers them as monsters. And this applies to our history as well. The Constitution and Bill of Rights was a compromise, not a triumph of the die-hards.
I'm a member of the NRA and I'm proud of it.
proud member
CA is losing ground on the gun issue because thats how the majority of "the people" want it. Dont blame the NRA for the lack a pair btwn thier legs as far as CA goes. For the pro-gun CA people on this thread, God Bless you right now thier is just not enough of ya in numbers. I'm from Minnesota.....not that much better.
What gets me is the general populations lack of motivation for protecting their Rights. I would like to see the NRA focus on shooting and 2ndA education
in public schools.......and sue if it cant get their way. I see this as to only way to teach the new generation in mass about fighting for their rights.
As a 34 years old Reagen-Conservative.......why do I feel like a civil rights 60's nutjob??
I too want them to be more aggressive.
I'm a life member to the GOA as well.
CA is losing ground on the gun issue because thats how the majority of "the people" want it. Dont blame the NRA for the lack a pair btwn thier legs as far as CA goes. For the pro-gun CA people on this thread, God Bless you right now thier is just not enough of ya in numbers. I'm from Minnesota.....not that much better.
What gets me is the general populations lack of motivation for protecting their Rights. I would like to see the NRA focus on shooting and 2ndA education
in public schools.......and sue if it cant get their way. I see this as to only way to teach the new generation in mass about fighting for their rights.
As a 34 years old Reagen-Conservative.......why do I feel like a civil rights 60's nutjob??
I too want them to be more aggressive.
I'm a life member to the GOA as well.
NineseveN
member
I don't think the King Of England saw our Declaration of Independence as a 'compromise'...
And on the same token, those that consitently compromise find themselves being assimilated into the trend more often than they do accomplishing that which they set out to do in the first place.
Some food for thought.
And on the same token, those that consitently compromise find themselves being assimilated into the trend more often than they do accomplishing that which they set out to do in the first place.
Some food for thought.
I didn't say The Declaration of Independence, I said the Constitution was a compromise. Which it was. The Bill of Rights was part of the compromising that went on during the convention which saw the creation of the constitution.
The Constitution came after we were an independent country. The declaration could afford to be a more pure statement because we were rebelling. Ideological clarity is alwasy easier when the decision has been made to revolt - it tends to be an all or nothing act. It's after the rebels have won in their struggle that things get murky and deals have to be cut.
NineseveN
member
I read and understood exactly what you wrote. And you made my point for me. We haven't won our struggle yet, so compromise is a bit premature. Compromise is what has gotten us into this mess in the first place. Our forefathers refused to compromise so that we would not have to bow down before the almighty king without checks, balances and freedoms that they felt were inalienable rights. Is it easy to laud compromise when our rights are being violated by a corrupt government? The documents you cite would not exist if it were not for the one that I cited, and the die-hard, fanatical struggle that brought that document to life in this country.
What happens to them? They win, liberate a country from tyranny, draft our system of government and live on as national and historical heroes.
The "never say die, never compromise folks" that gave us this country and documented our RIGHTS are thought of as Monsters? MLK was a monster?
Anyway, don’t want to get too political or too off-track with this issue, just trying to illustrate, that those of you that think compromising is the better path where our rights are concerned are the same types of people that got us into this mess in the first place.
What happens to them? They win, liberate a country from tyranny, draft our system of government and live on as national and historical heroes.
The "never say die, never compromise folks" that gave us this country and documented our RIGHTS are thought of as Monsters? MLK was a monster?
Anyway, don’t want to get too political or too off-track with this issue, just trying to illustrate, that those of you that think compromising is the better path where our rights are concerned are the same types of people that got us into this mess in the first place.
Monkeyleg
Member.
Not trying to continue the arguments over the Framers and the Constitution, but at the time of our Revolution, roughly a third of the population was for it, a third were Tories, and a third didn't care. (Funny how some things don't change).
Imagine if even a third of the gun owners out there belonged to the NRA. We wouldn't have to fight these ridiculous laws. Even DiFi would be pro-gun.
Instead, we have just 5% or so of gun owners supporting the other 95%.
Imagine if even a third of the gun owners out there belonged to the NRA. We wouldn't have to fight these ridiculous laws. Even DiFi would be pro-gun.
Instead, we have just 5% or so of gun owners supporting the other 95%.
Wanna hear something really sad?
With help from TSRA (Texas State Rifle Association), there were 9 (NINE) pro-gun or pro-hunting amendments passed THIS SINGLE legislative session.
Although there are nearly a QUARTER OF A MILLION Concealed Handgun License holders in TX, there are only 36,000 TSRA members.
Here you have an organization that is really producing for the gun owners in the state of Texas and yet the membership is tiny.
What gets me is that a CHL costs over $200 by the time you factor in the license and class costs. But although they're willing to fork over for the CHL, clearly only a tiny number of CHL holders (not even talking about gun owners here--JUST CHL holders) are willing to pay TSRA $20 a year for membership. Yet without the efforts of the TSRA, it's likely that CHLs would be much more restrictive and may not have even come to TX at all.
NO compromise means rarely having any solution at all, and even more rarely having one that's even remotely tolerable.
How many of the NRA haters think that FOPA would have come about without the NRA? How many think that the Brady Ban would have sunset without NRA assistance--remember how the sunset got put in the bill in the first place? You guys are reaping the benefits of compromise at the expense of gun owners who support these organizations (yes--in spite of the warts) and yet refusing to even acknowledge that a good many of the firearm freedoms you enjoy are a direct result of compromise and of the efforts of the organization you decry.
Until you have something better to offer, you could at least refrain from attacking the organization that is responsible for FOPA, Brady sunset as well as for helping prevent the passage of too many gun control measures to list.
I'm not saying to support them, just try to stop attacking. They may not be doing it exactly the way you would but they're doing more than anyone else--and it's not even a close race.
With help from TSRA (Texas State Rifle Association), there were 9 (NINE) pro-gun or pro-hunting amendments passed THIS SINGLE legislative session.
Although there are nearly a QUARTER OF A MILLION Concealed Handgun License holders in TX, there are only 36,000 TSRA members.
Here you have an organization that is really producing for the gun owners in the state of Texas and yet the membership is tiny.
What gets me is that a CHL costs over $200 by the time you factor in the license and class costs. But although they're willing to fork over for the CHL, clearly only a tiny number of CHL holders (not even talking about gun owners here--JUST CHL holders) are willing to pay TSRA $20 a year for membership. Yet without the efforts of the TSRA, it's likely that CHLs would be much more restrictive and may not have even come to TX at all.
NO compromise means rarely having any solution at all, and even more rarely having one that's even remotely tolerable.
How many of the NRA haters think that FOPA would have come about without the NRA? How many think that the Brady Ban would have sunset without NRA assistance--remember how the sunset got put in the bill in the first place? You guys are reaping the benefits of compromise at the expense of gun owners who support these organizations (yes--in spite of the warts) and yet refusing to even acknowledge that a good many of the firearm freedoms you enjoy are a direct result of compromise and of the efforts of the organization you decry.
Until you have something better to offer, you could at least refrain from attacking the organization that is responsible for FOPA, Brady sunset as well as for helping prevent the passage of too many gun control measures to list.
I'm not saying to support them, just try to stop attacking. They may not be doing it exactly the way you would but they're doing more than anyone else--and it's not even a close race.
JohnBT
Member
"I'd even bite the bullet and pay for a life membership if I could be sure that they wouldn't bombard me with what I feel is junk mail asking for more money, etc."
Bothers you does it? I upgraded to Life last year. Yesterday I received an offer to upgrade to Endowment level for $175 instead of the usual $750.
I've been leaning toward doing it all day - about 60-40, yes I will, no I won't. You know what, the whiners pushed me over the top.
The battle won't be won with hot air and naysaying.
John
Member www.vcdl.org
P.S. - The NRA-ILA mailings are not paid for with dues. It's against the law. You could look it up with little or no effort along with the 'don't send me any more junk' phone number.
Bothers you does it? I upgraded to Life last year. Yesterday I received an offer to upgrade to Endowment level for $175 instead of the usual $750.
I've been leaning toward doing it all day - about 60-40, yes I will, no I won't. You know what, the whiners pushed me over the top.
The battle won't be won with hot air and naysaying.John
Member www.vcdl.org
P.S. - The NRA-ILA mailings are not paid for with dues. It's against the law. You could look it up with little or no effort along with the 'don't send me any more junk' phone number.
JohnBT
Member
"Q: How can I reduce the amount of mail I receive from the NRA?
A: Simply email us at [email protected] or dial 800-NRA-3888 and request to be placed on the "Do Not Promote" list. This will significantly reduce the amount of mail you receive without affecting important mailings, magazine service, or your membership renewal."
There, that was easy.
JBT
A: Simply email us at [email protected] or dial 800-NRA-3888 and request to be placed on the "Do Not Promote" list. This will significantly reduce the amount of mail you receive without affecting important mailings, magazine service, or your membership renewal."
There, that was easy.
JBT
biere
Member
This is from the nra-ila websight and their myths and fables section.
start quote
The truth is, NRA supports many gun laws
end quote
for more, here is a link.
http://www.nraila.org/media/misc/fables.htm#FABLE III:
Please note there is no period at the end of that phrase so yes I chopped off some of their examples of gun control they accept. Go to the link or search for others if you wish and enjoy seeing that the nra wishes to limit who may posses a firearm.
Here is a quote about ammo from the same link.
The 1986 federal law prohibiting the manufacture and importation of "armor piercing ammunition" adopted standards NRA helped write.
End quote.
Oh, the authors name I mentioned is properly spelled Vin Suprynowicz and I am doing that since I messed up the spelling. I did not check to see if anyone else had it right or wrong.
I did not mention vin and his book because I think he is a great writer or anything else.
I mentioned it because this is the first book I have read that goes after the nra and has good facts that are easily searched out.
If everyone else in the world is happy supporting the nra I am happy that they are happy.
I am happy that I don't support a group that states they are in favor of gun control.
And as far as the post about not picking on the nra, sorry but the nra deserves to be picked on when there are things like this going on.
begin quote
In Utah this year, Utah Gun Owners Alliance lobbyist and M.D. Sarah Thompson had worked to get through "a good bill that would have honored concealed-carry permits from any other state without restriction," notes Dennis Fusaro, who himself was let go from GOA in March for not being cooperative enough with the gun-grabbers at the NRA.
In the final days of the session, however, NRA lobbyist Brian Judy arrived in Salt Lake City and made a deal to accept an amendment that the out-of-state permits would only be honored for 60 days.
"Sarah had the senators pretty well under control and was pushing them with grass-roots pressure, and then Brian Judy goes in the back room and accepts this bad amendment," Fusaro reports.
end quote.
Please note this is a quote from something vin wrote and here is the link for the whole thing.
http://www.citizenreviewonline.org/june_2001/americas_largest_gun_control_organization.htm
start quote
The truth is, NRA supports many gun laws
end quote
for more, here is a link.
http://www.nraila.org/media/misc/fables.htm#FABLE III:
Please note there is no period at the end of that phrase so yes I chopped off some of their examples of gun control they accept. Go to the link or search for others if you wish and enjoy seeing that the nra wishes to limit who may posses a firearm.
Here is a quote about ammo from the same link.
The 1986 federal law prohibiting the manufacture and importation of "armor piercing ammunition" adopted standards NRA helped write.
End quote.
Oh, the authors name I mentioned is properly spelled Vin Suprynowicz and I am doing that since I messed up the spelling. I did not check to see if anyone else had it right or wrong.
I did not mention vin and his book because I think he is a great writer or anything else.
I mentioned it because this is the first book I have read that goes after the nra and has good facts that are easily searched out.
If everyone else in the world is happy supporting the nra I am happy that they are happy.
I am happy that I don't support a group that states they are in favor of gun control.
And as far as the post about not picking on the nra, sorry but the nra deserves to be picked on when there are things like this going on.
begin quote
In Utah this year, Utah Gun Owners Alliance lobbyist and M.D. Sarah Thompson had worked to get through "a good bill that would have honored concealed-carry permits from any other state without restriction," notes Dennis Fusaro, who himself was let go from GOA in March for not being cooperative enough with the gun-grabbers at the NRA.
In the final days of the session, however, NRA lobbyist Brian Judy arrived in Salt Lake City and made a deal to accept an amendment that the out-of-state permits would only be honored for 60 days.
"Sarah had the senators pretty well under control and was pushing them with grass-roots pressure, and then Brian Judy goes in the back room and accepts this bad amendment," Fusaro reports.
end quote.
Please note this is a quote from something vin wrote and here is the link for the whole thing.
http://www.citizenreviewonline.org/june_2001/americas_largest_gun_control_organization.htm
dmftoy1
Member
JohnBT: Ok, you convinced me. Just bit the bullet and got a life membership. Once the materials arrive I'll see if I can "reduce" the number of unwanted mailings.
Have a good one,
Dave
JohnBT
Member
And I mailed my upgrade check yesterday as promised. You know, what we need to do is get the unhappy-with-the-NRA folks to organize a Take Back the NRA campaign. I figure there must be a million of them that would join for 5 years so they could vote. Heck, some of them might even run for office.
I'm not on the DoNotBotherMeSoMuch list and they really don't send that much mail to me. What they do send is usually interesting information.
John
Member www.vcdl.org
Last edited:
There is no valid excuse for not having an NRA membership if you are a gun owner and support 2nd Amendment Constitutional Rights. The same applies to anyone not having membership in GOA and any local or state groups. You should be supporting all of them.
They mail me too much stuff... They call me on the phone... I don't agree with all of their tactics and opinions.... What have they done for ME lately... Lame. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
Without the NRA, GOA and other local groups the gun control environment across our country would be extremely far worse than it is today.
United we have strength and clout. As individuals we have neither. If any of this applies to you then get off of your butt and get the checks out in the mail this week.
They mail me too much stuff... They call me on the phone... I don't agree with all of their tactics and opinions.... What have they done for ME lately... Lame. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
Without the NRA, GOA and other local groups the gun control environment across our country would be extremely far worse than it is today.
United we have strength and clout. As individuals we have neither. If any of this applies to you then get off of your butt and get the checks out in the mail this week.
JohnBT
Member
NineseveN
member
Show me, in detail what the NRA has done for "gun owners" since, say, just before the Clinton ban. I want examples. Perhaps I am missing something. I doubt it, so we’ll see. All this rally-speak and cheerleading is useless. Trying to tell me I am less of a gun owner than you are because I don't support an organization that has gotten into the habit of making compromises on our behalf when concerning our rights and then saying they're fighting for us is absurd. They are a "Hunter's Rights" organization, and if I ever choose to start capping deer, then maybe they can have some of my money. The second amendment had absolutely nothing to do with hunting, period. Being soft on the very weapons the framers intended for us to own as a defense against tyranny in government makes the NRA come up lacking in my book. They take one step forwards, and then 2 half-steps back every time I see them act on anything.
Again, the only admirable thing they have done that I can recall off hand is bowing out of Ohio over the AWB. I give them props for that, and if it signals a move ahead in this direction from here on out, they can have my money so long a they keep moving that way.
Again, the only admirable thing they have done that I can recall off hand is bowing out of Ohio over the AWB. I give them props for that, and if it signals a move ahead in this direction from here on out, they can have my money so long a they keep moving that way.
JohnBT
Member
"Show me, in detail..."
Nope, you didn't say please.
OTOH, the Brady bunch seems to think the NRA has been effective. Read all about it at...
www.stopthenra.com
John
Member www.vcdl.org
Nope, you didn't say please.
OTOH, the Brady bunch seems to think the NRA has been effective. Read all about it at...
www.stopthenra.com
John
Member www.vcdl.org
NineseveN
member
I deserved that, Knight to rook 3.
As for the link...it's looking to me like it's plain old political hype. Make the biggest monster out of your enemy as you can and trumpet your own victories as HUGE battles being won, no matter how small or even ficticious they may be. Same thing the NRA does to a point, except the NRA doesn't fabricate statistics, only intent.
Good link though, didn't think anyone would bring that up in this discussion.
JohnBT
Member
"Knight to rook 3"
Bobby F. might get away with playing it to the edge, but it's not recommended.
John
Bobby F. might get away with playing it to the edge, but it's not recommended.
John
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
