My Indoor Range Went Lead-Free

[flashman70]

They insist that the EPA or OSHA is soon going to force all ranges to allow only lead-free ammo and they're just making the changeover on their own terms before being ordered to. I can't believe they did this to make money, because they're losing a ton of business. About 30% of their business is .22LR and there is no lead-free available for it. So they've lost all their .22LR shooters. The ammo is priced outrageously. I like these guys, so I hate to take my business elsewhere, but it's ridiculous to spend $100 on 100 rounds of .45 ACP and 100 rounds of 9mm. On the other hand, if all ranges are soon going this way, I guess I'll get used to shooting a lot less.

Anyone else heard anything like this?

 

[atomicferret]

I doubt they will ever force lead-free ranges. Lead is a naturally occuring metal, they can't, logically, say that is bad for the environment. It doesn't seep either.

 

[Zundfolge]

Lead is a naturally occuring metal, they can't, logically, say that is bad for the environment.

One cannot use the word "logically" and "environment" in the same sentence any more ... I believe its against the law or something.

 

[wooderson]

He said 'indoor.'

Lead is a serious issue for indoor ranges. If you shoot regularly indoors and the ventilation isn't great (and there are no standards as to 'good' and bad ventilation that I know of), you may well have elevated lead levels in your blood. I imagine it's worse for those who work at them often, do cleanup, etc..

So OSHA, maybe (long shot - OSHA can barely regulate industries with regular fatalities, much less mom'n'pop ranges), but the EPA wouldn't be a factor.

 

[vtoddball]

This has been annoying me for a while. They keep insisting that lead be removed from everything. IT'S A NATURALLY OCCURRING ELEMENT!!! What do they want to do? Take all the lead in the world and make it into one big cube in a desert somewhere that no one can touch or look at?

How many times in the last year have you heard of someone dying from lead poisoning? This is the part where the hippie activist says, "Yeah man, but if it saves one life it's worth it." Oh really? I'm betting a lot more people die from the drugs he wants to legalize than ever died from lead poisoning. But at that point, it's HIS freedom of choice that's being threatened.

Freakin' environmental hypocrites.

 

[tmajors]

Greenpeace for a while was trying to ban Carbon. Not CO2 but the element Carbon itself. Wonder how that would work out?

 

[atomicferret]

oh, yep, missed the "indoor" part.

Lead can be very dangerous on an indoor range if it has poor ventilation. I know a couple of people who had lead poisening from shooting at a local gun shop (both recovered). It would be much more feasible and finacially affordable to just encourage upgrades in ventilation.

 

[BigRobT]

Hmm, banning carbon?? I guess that just kind of might interfere with all of the carbon based life-forms here on earth. Maybe they're working with some other life form that they want to help take over the Earth??

 

[VARifleman]

Except that lead from bullets isn't the problem, it's lead in the smoke from the primers.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Winclean

Has the range heard of Winclean?

Completely jacketed rounds.

Very low lead emissions.

Not all that expensive, either.

 

[RP86]

Has the range heard of Winclean?

Completely jacketed rounds.

Very low lead emissions.

Not all that expensive, either.

I believe they also use lead free primers, but don't hold me to it.

 

[wooderson]

Greenpeace for a while was trying to ban Carbon.

Source?

 

[mballai]

I believe that there is some sort of push for this sort of thing, but it completely undermines shooter choice. I like to shoot lead, not all the time, but it is more suitable for target work and it's less expensive.

An elevated blood lead level is not necessarily a terrible thing either, but that's a story for another day. Suffice it to say, people want to make everything safe. If you shoot, you've already accepted a certain level of risk.
Nothing is really safe, and if you think otherwise, you are fair game for those who will sell you another fairy tale that will curtail your freedom at a high price.

 

[atomchaser]

Sounds like a good revenue generating scheme for you range or just uninformed hysteria. Certainly OSHA and EPA can make it more difficult for indoor ranges by ratcheting down the exposure standards and waste handling procedures but any sort of outright ban is unlikely.

 

[shadowalker]

The indoor range here doesn't allow exposed lead on bullets but doesn't require lead free primers. I don't think it limits shooter choice at all, if I want to shoot lead I'm free to shoot at any of the outdoor ranges in the area.

I prefer that policy for an indoor range, primers still release some lead but total lead is reduced by using TMJ bullets, as long as the person next to you isn't dry sweeping their brass all around that is.

They really need to advocate some good standards for lead control at indoor ranges, lots of shooters are ignorant of the increased risks and how to manage them.

 

[SWMAN]

The ammo is priced outrageously. I like these guys, so I hate to take my business elsewhere, but it's ridiculous to spend $100 on 100 rounds of .45 ACP and 100 rounds of 9mm. On the other hand, if all ranges are soon going this way, I guess I'll get used to shooting a lot less.

Just curious: Does your range sell lead-free ammunition?

 

[K-Romulus]

What range is it?

 

[TonyB]

Our IDPA league is lead free.We are indoors year round.One of our guys had his lead level checked a few years ago and it was way high.It is more expensive than standard stuff(like $18/box for .45s)but they were the rules before I came along,so I buy the lead free stuff.I make up for it in cheeseburgers...wouldn't want to be too healthy....

 

[alucard0822]

sorry to hear your range has fallen for very expensive misinformation. The lead poisioning at ranges thing ranks up there with 2nd hand smoke, trans fat and most other relatively harmless delights that have mostly anecdotal and junk science reports to exaggerate the "harm" that is caused, but nonetheless is championed by paranoid, but determined people to take away rights and our freedom of choice.

personally, I just wash my hands after shooting/reloading and let the lead fly

 

[kellyj00]

lead killed the Greeks. Know why it's symbol on the periodic table is "pb"? because it used to be what the greek civilization used for drinking water PlumBing.

It's no more dangerous, however, than a plastic bag to a baby. Lead is only dangerous when ingested. I should point out, however, that foundries who use lead are required by osha to have their employees periodically tested for lead content.

All of the above taken from the History Channel's show Modern Marvels...the first one "plumbing" the second "heavy metals, part 2"... I'm a big fan ;-)

 

[The Deer Hunter]

I doubt they will ever force lead-free ranges. Lead is a naturally occuring metal, they can't, logically, say that is bad for the environment. It doesn't seep either.

Its too bad the enviromental protection people cant realize this, because we had to put up a shot screen to prevent lead from going beyond our trap field.

 

[alucard0822]

The latin word for lead is plumbum, which is where the word plumbing came from, not the other way around. hence the PB atomic symbol, however the romans large scale use of lead pipes, white lead paint/makeup, and even its use as a sweetener in drinks has been referenced in many modern interpretations as a contributing factor for the fall of the civilization

maybe this might help

 

[CleverNickname]

Know why it's symbol on the periodic table is "pb"? because it used to be what the greek civilization used for drinking water PlumBing.

I think you got that backwards. The symbol for lead is "Pb" from the Latin (not Greek) word for lead, "plumbum", which is the root of the English word "plumbing".

 

[OpFlash]

Seems like lead from the primers would be a whole lot bigger issue than lead free bullets, since primer smoke is generated right in front of your face and lead from bullets mostly stays down range even indoors.

Why in the world don't they just invest in better ventilation systems rather than lose so much business by forcing people to buy overpriced lead free ammo? I don't agree with the gov banning lead even at indoor ranges. Enforcing ventilation standards makes a lot more sense. But then that wouldn't achieve thier secondary purpose of pushing firearms further out of the mainstream would it?

 

[RonC]

Even though lead is a natural substance, the issue comes down to amount. Even healthy substances are toxic is excess. There is no known physiological need for lead. We can tolerate other metals better, like aluminum, zinc, iron, because our body has requirements for them. But in the case of lead and cadmium, there is no use for them in our bodies. Thus, they are toxic in low amounts.
For those who poo-poo the risks, the following is from the toxic substances risk site (with results documented by research literature) Take a look at the impacts on the brain. I happen to treasure that particular organ and its functions.: http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/HEC/CSEM/lead/physiologic_effects.html#nerve

Lead primarily affects the peripheral and central nervous systems, renal function, blood cells, and the metabolism of vitamin D and calcium. Lead can also cause hypertension, reproductive toxicity, and developmental effects.
Lead encephalopathy (damage to the skull and brain) may occur (Kehoe 1961). Precursors of encephalopathy, such as dullness, irritability, poor attention span, muscular tremor, loss of memory, and hallucination, may occur at low levels.

Effects can be manifested as malaise; forgetfulness; irritability; lethargy; impaired concentration; depression and mood changes; increased nervousness; headache; fatigue; impotence; decreased libido; dizziness; weakness; and paresthesia; as well as diminished reaction time, visual motor performance, hand dexterity, IQ scores, and cognitive performance (ATSDR 1999).

Kidney Problems
Lead exposure can lead to renal effects such as Fanconi-like syndromes, chronic nephropathy, and gout.
Many studies show a strong association between lead exposure and renal effects. Acute, high dose lead-induced impairment of proximal tubular function manifests in aminoaciduria, glycosuria, and hyperphosphaturia (a Fanconi-like syndrome); these effects appear to be reversible (ATSDR 1999). However, continued or repetitive exposures can cause a toxic stress on the kidney that, if unrelieved, may develop into chronic and often irreversible lead nephropathy (i.e., interstitial nephritis).
Most lead-associated renal effects or disease are a result of ongoing chronic low levels or current high acute exposure. They can also be attributable to previous chronic lead exposure.
Lead inhibits several enzymes critical to the synthesis of heme, causing a decrease in blood hemoglobin.
Cardiovascular (Hypertension) Effects
· Lead exposure may lead to increased risk for hypertension and the effects of hypertension.
Reproductive Effects
· Evidence suggests an association between lead exposure and certain reproductive and developmental outcomes.
Male Reproductive Effects
Recent reproductive function studies in humans suggest that current (ongoing) occupational exposures may decrease sperm count totals and increase abnormal sperm frequencies (Alexander et al. 1996; Gennart et al. 1992; Lerda 1992; Lin et al. 1996; Telisman et al. 2000).

Ron