My LAST visit to a once-proud LGS...

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Last time I was in my local shop, looking for a .22 rifle, the owner started whining about getting fingerprints on his guns. Not to worry, it won't happen again. I drove the 100 miles to the big box store and bought a better rifle for less money. Guys like this deserve to be out of business. I even drove the 100 miles again last week for a box of primers. That idiot will never see another dime of mine.
 
Fpcusing on what it takes to stay in business, take a look at auto parts retailers, your local parts store. In the '60's, a town of 40,000 could have as many as a dozen independent shops, all in direct competition. You price shopped them all, and wound up doing repeat business at the closest one that treated you decently. Now, you shop one of three majors with at least two stores each in town.

Right now, independents are having major competition from the internet. Their best response is to be bigger and franchise, so they can get the cheaper prices of buying one hundred guns at a time spread over 25 stores. You can't get volume pricing buying just 4 guns a month from a distributor, or even a hundred - if they are all different. No volume, no discounts.

Car dealers are just about finishing being consolidated by chains - one in town now has about 6 makes under their banner. As long as business gives discounts only in volume, then there will be pressure and competitive pricing from the bigger retailers who are much more available on line to price compare, and places like BASS PRO and CABELA'S, who go to great lengths supporting cheaper gun prices with $250 Goretex hunting coats.

Small independent shops are literally on the chopping block, just like auto parts, car dealers, appliance stores, hardware stores, etc. The BoxMarts are here with heavily discounted prices to run them off. History is littered with examples that most will not survive.
 
Some of these stores literally can't compete with the walmarts in the area. Certain items are actually made specifically for walmart at a cheaper cost so walmart can sell them cheaper. I'm not saying firearms are but some items in the mom and pop stores are the same name but not the same quality.

I agree tho that too many mom amd pop stores have the wrong idea about business tho. The company I work for refuses to lower the price on a item we've carried for a long time because he won't make enough on it. But he just can't see that if were selling x2 the amount it evens out.
 
I think the days of storefronts are passing into history. Big box superstores and online shopping has steadily killed them off. Now a consumer can almost instantly compare prices from dozens of retailers without going to a single store.
 
I have nothing high road to say about LGS.
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That's too bad. I certainly can. They are local after all; that's good. Some of them have friendly faces and good service. Sometimes they have what no other source has; the right selection at the right price.

This is not true for all of them though. But I'm glad my area has a good number of gun shops. It's not like I'd rather see them all closed down and gone for good. No.
Big box superstores and online shopping has steadily killed them off.
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Maybe what you mean is that the small, local shops don't have the motivation to compete for their piece of the market pie. Some of them definitely won't do what it takes to increase the size of their market piece. It's easy to just say that the guys with all the money are taking away the market from the little guy, but that's silly. There are so many examples of small, family owned businesses that own the vast majority of the market in their industry, and the big competitors can't make a dent.

Big box retailers sit down with their suppliers and hammer out deep discounts and volume pricing. They shop out the freight companies and arrange for the lowest possible costs. They keep the pressure on their suppliers to get better pricing and they agree to push the products that the manufacturers would like to see promoted. Many of the mom-n-pop shops don't want to bother with all that. They take the price increases from the wholesalers without question and they pass it all onto me. Those types aren't REALLY trying to succeed and grow. They're just trying to do the minimum to keep the lights on, pay the bills, and get home in time for Jeopardy. They are not at all aggressive when it comes to deal making and hand shaking.

I've heard of kitchen table FFLs who gross seven digit sales in the year. Those guys work HARD at their business and it is all returned in spades.
 
. He quoted me a price of $559+tax. I whipped out my Iphone and went to EOTech's website and found that MSRP is $519. I asked him why I would ever pay MORE than msrp. He said that they are a small shop and can't compete with the big guys. I was going to argue the point further, but decided against it and just thanked him for his time and left.
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now its been a while since ive taken Econ101.....but assuming the MSRP is $519....since the LGS is a distributer for that compaqny, they arent paying full price for the product....so that must mean that the LGS gets them for say $400-450-ish.......

now by selling it to you for $559.....they would be making ~$100-150 profit.......but since you werent going to pay over MSRP.....they arent going to make ANY money off you...

so wouldnt it actually be in THEIR best interest to sell it to you for $500-519......and make $50-70 from you....?


after all....$50 is better than $0........and it wouldnt cost the company anything.....thus they are still netting a profit from the transaction....rather than simply letting you (and your money) walk out the door.


if thats they way these small places do business.....no wonder they cant compete with large retailers.
 
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We have a "former LGS" in town - 10 years ago, I could go in there and buy reloading supplies. I got out of it for a few years, and when I went back, he said, "Naw, I don't carry any of that stuff any more. You gotta carry way to much inventory to do any sales."

Well, other than archery, he isn't carrying too much inventory on anything any more - at least in the guns and hunting areas. And on the archery stuff, he's above MSRP by 20-25%. So now, I drive 43 miles to the nearest complete LGS - good new inventory, great used inventory in rifles, handguns, and shotguns, and a full line of reloading supplies including both new and used dies, presses, lead and melting equipment, etc.

His prices are pretty decent and the shop is always busy. In fact, 6 months ago I picked up a new Savage 7mmWSM he had on the rack for awhile. He showed me the new Kimber 7mm WSM, and sold me the Savage for $450. Do I mind paying a little more for powder or primers? -Heck no, because I can drive over in the morning, and load that night. Do I shop the big box stores? -No, because half the time if I ask for info about something on the rack, the person I'm talking to picks up the wrong "something," and knows nothing about it.

I do order from Midway, for stuff like muzzle reamers, sight pushers, etc. And I think they're a great outfit, too.

My point is, it's possible for a LGS to survive, and even to prosper. But it only works if they know their stuff, understand their customer base, and invest wisely in the inventory items that will make them a standout. Isn't that true of ALL businesses??
 
I've had really good service from a local shop that sells farm supplies and does fabricating and happens to also sell guns. their prices are reasonable, and since their other aspects of business are making money, they don't have to jack up their prices or be worried their shop is going to close down.
 
That's the problem I've run into. I've been to a lot of local gunshops and 98% of them have extremely high prices, horrible service, and they act like they are doing you a huge favor by letting you buy from them. I'm in no way going to pay more for this stuff, so the majority of the time I buy from online or at box stores and save money.

We did have one decent gun shop a few years ago that was great and I bought lots from them. Their prices on somethings were lower than Walmart, and on others were within a dollar or two of Walmarts prices. Ontop of that they often gave me a small discount when I bought several things at once. They had friendly service on top of that, although the guys didn't know much about quite a few of the guns they were selling, they'd tell you they didn't know instead of some bs. They always had a line of customers each time I went in.

In the last few years the prices have sky rocketed. Instead of being $1-2 more on a box of ammo than Walmart they now are double the price. Back a couple of years ago when WWB 9mm was still $20 at Walmart this store jacked it up to $42.99. Other prices are similar. Ammo prices never came down there, and just kept going up from there. Almost everything is about double what it would cost at Walmart. Their used guns cost more than new guns, and I'm not even sure what kind of prices they have on their new guns. They also no longer give you discounts for being a "regular". Their service isn't anything special either and the last time I had their gunsmith do any work he was supposed to install sling studs for me and he drilled it off center. I just really don't have a good thing to say about this shop anymore and apparently no one else does either as the last couple of times I've been there they haven't had many other customers and the employees were chatting with nothing to do. I found out, a guy that used to be a regular employee now owns the shop, and apparently that is why it changed.
I just don't see how that shop is still in business and it's a shame because they used to be a good shop.

Another local shop has a big selection, a friendly staff, but their prices on most things are purely outrageous. Their ammo is also about double what Walmart sells it for. Now I realize not everyone can compete with Walmart, but sell it a few bucks higher and I will support you, sell the exact same stuff for 100% markup from Walmart and I'm not shopping with you. I know it's the exact same stuff because quite a bit of the Federal ammo that comes in the red boxes now with WM in the product code is what they have. So they are clearly buying it from Walmart and what Walmart is selling for $13.98 they have marked $28.99. Their gun prices are just as outrageous. The last few times I've been in there I've seen other things that bothered me. The first time, the guys behind the counter were laughing about a customer brought in a gun for a stuck bullet. They said they just took 30 seconds and knocked it out with a small wooden dowel and charged him $60. They thought it was hilarious that they just ripped him off. This isn't the kind of shop I want to deal with.

I just have yet to find a truly good local shop. I don't mind paying slightly higher prices to support you if you offer decent service, but I'm not going to pay double the price, and I'm not going to pay a premium to have worse service than I'd have gotten at Walmart. Seems like most of the shops here think they can charge double the price and treat you like **** and then they complain about how box stores and online stores are putting the "local shops" out of business. News flash for them, it's not the box stores and online stores, it's your attitude and business practices.
 
There are gun shops that will survive the age of the internet, and there are gun shops that won't. Those that will are the ones that remain somewhat competetive and offer amazing customer service that makes paying a little more worth it. But shops like those in the OP that are at or over MSRP and have a condescending attitude toward their customers will fail, as they should.

Most people would rather handle an item and take possession immediately upon payment. This is especially true of guns, and brick-and-mortar retailers can capitalize on that and charge a little more. But try to gouge, and you'll lose business to the giant warehouse with only a website for a front door.

Gun stores are a terrible business. Your best customers buy a gun maybe 2-3 times a year, and know the bottom dollar price offered by some discount internet website. The only real money you make is when some noob pays $900.00 for a PM9 because their house was just broken into.
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Gun shops don't survive on new gun sales. Used and accessories are where it's at.

Certain items are actually made specifically for walmart at a cheaper cost so walmart can sell them cheaper. I'm not saying firearms are but some items in the mom and pop stores are the same name but not the same quality.
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This is true. Tires are one of the best examples. There are Goodyear branded tires at Wal-Mart and only Wal-Mart. I worked for an independent Goodyear store for awhile, and it was always difficult explaining to people that not only could we not warranty their club tire, we couldn't even get them unless we drove over to WM and payed the same retail price they did.
 
Customer Service

Local mom and pop, brick and mortar, shops cannot compete head to head with big box stores. Many product manufactures offer cheaper lines to only big box stores while they sell their more expensive, better quality items to the smaller businesses. But most consumers don’t care about the difference in quality and are focused on the price. This is understandable given the times we live in.

The only area a small business can compete and win against a big box is quality of service. It boils down to how well the consumer feels they are being treated.

Locals also have to be competitive in their prices (not the cheapest) and sometimes that means they don’t carry everything but again, they’re not a big box and should act like one.
 
I'll pay more if the service is good. Without local gun stores here, we would have NO AMMUNITION. As in none. No powder, no primers, no nada. So yeah that's worth paying over the sticker price.

For those who say "yeah that's just Alaska," consider that the difficulties of getting ORMD and hazmat up here are a pure product of law, not of geography. It would be exceedingly easy for the feds to reclassify ammunition in such a way as to keep it from ever being mailed or sent common carrier except by incredibly expensive methods. Then you'd be missing your LGS real bad.
 
I was just in McBrides the other day. All of their guns are behind the counter except for a stand alone rack were they keep rimfires.

I was just browsing when I noticed a new lever action Henry sitting in front. It had about 3 inches of bad rust at the end of it's barrel and front sight. I looked at the tag thinking they must have it on clearance. I about fell over at what I read. The price was over $700!
 
The people who still care seem to be Brownell's and Midway. They are still owned by the founders or founding families. Others who care are the small accessory mfrs and small firearms companies. But, if you are going to buy guns from Bud's or one of the other mail order/internet companies, you still need a local Dealer to receive the firearms for you. So, hope you can find a decent local gun store or gunsmith and keep them going, even though you may pay a little more for what you acquire from them.
 
now its been a while since ive taken Econ101.....but assuming the MSRP is $519....since the LGS is a distributer for that compaqny, they arent paying full price for the product....so that must mean that the LGS gets them for say $400-450-ish.......
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Being an FFL they buy things for wholesale prices, since they are a distributor they get it even less. For example a FFL can buy a Beretta PX4 for $420 from a distributer so the distributer buys it for even less than that.
 
It's very common to have one if not a few lgs like that. What I do is cut them out of my routine since there are several lgs around here. I do however stop in them from time to time. Misspriced guns or just bargains can turn up in anywhere. The guy that jacks up the price on the pile of glocks will more than often put 100$ on a enfield because he thinks it is junk. One of the good things about peoples love of plastic.
 
Cosmoline said:
I'll pay more if the service is good. Without local gun stores here, we would have NO AMMUNITION. As in none. No powder, no primers, no nada. So yeah that's worth paying over the sticker price.

For those who say "yeah that's just Alaska," consider that the difficulties of getting ORMD and hazmat up here are a pure product of law, not of geography. It would be exceedingly easy for the feds to reclassify ammunition in such a way as to keep it from ever being mailed or sent common carrier except by incredibly expensive methods. Then you'd be missing your LGS real bad.
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Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not down on the LGS across the board. There's a guy in Lubbock who runs a shop called West Texas Military Surplus. I bought my last handgun from him. He was about $20-$30 higher than Buds, but that's right around the price of FFL transfer fees. He was nice, his price was realistic, he's a local business, has a good selection, and he was BELOW msrp...so I gave him the sale.

But this "you need to pay outrageous prices, sometimes OVER mrsp, to keep me in business" attitude doesn't draw a lot of water with me. Car dealers do this too. They want to "build a relationship" and all that bunk. Well, great, lets build a relationship where you sell me the product that I want at a fair price. Then I'll keep coming back to you for all my needs. But lets face facts, the salesman aint marrying my sister or anything. I shop on price first, and I'm a little flexible when it comes to big purchases like guns and cars, but you've got to be "in the ballpark" for us to do business.
 
Shrug. I shop Gander Mountain & mail order. My local GM has good knowledgable staff who use the same things they sell. They'll do layaway. They'll special order without a down payment. They may cost somewhat more than the LGS, but when you add in shipping and the FFL transfer fee for anything other than the usual junk in stock at that LGS, guess what? Suddenly GM is cheaper again and I can take 90 days to pay it off.

The LGS up the road from them is every bad cliche of a gun store. I won't miss them when they're gone.
 
^ Maybe it's different in Wisconsin, but here in Texas Gander Mountain is always WAY to high when it comes to new firearms. I've been to Gander in Houston and Lubbock and the only deals to be had seem to be on self-defense ammo and every once and awhile a good deal on a used firearm.

Academy Sports and Outdoors, Wally World, and yes... most LGSs are better than Gander Mountain in this neck of the woods.
 
Ok I heard basspro mentioned as selling guns, so I have to comment.

Bass pro as a general rule doesn't sell guns, they sell sporting equipment and some this equipment just hppens to be guns. Their attitude towards guns makes me sick, if its politically correct they'll sell it or if they can make money hand over fist selling it they'll sell it. If they had a choice I don't think they'd sell guns.

I live in Springfield home of basspro and the pawnshop across the street from basspro has more guns then the mothership of basspro's and they have better prices to.

Usually box stores are ripoff in my opinion
 
do what almost all 21-55 year olds do now. Find a transfer friendly dealer and get ALL your chit online. Better do it now before states start cracking down on the sales tax you aren't paying.
 
Bass pro as a general rule doesn't sell guns, they sell sporting equipment and some this equipment just hppens to be guns. Their attitude towards guns makes me sick, if its politically correct they'll sell it or if they can make money hand over fist selling it they'll sell it. If they had a choice I don't think they'd sell guns
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2 things....

1) bass pro isnt a gun shop......they are an "outdoor" store....most of their clientele are hunters and outdoors men.......most hunters dont use AK-47s, glocks, and the like.......they are looking for hunting rifles and shotguns.......so it only makes sense that that is what they would sell.


2) i dont know how the basspro in Springfield is.......but the one here in MA(oddly enough) seem to be pretty "gun friendly"...

the firearm staff actually seem to be decently knowledgeable and they have a pretty decent selection of guns (both hunting and SD), they actually have more than most gun shops ive been in........everything from 1911s to Beretta 92s......a whole mess of Rugers and S&W....and just about every popular rifle and shotgun.....
 
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