My new 1891 Argentine Mauser in 7.65x53 argentine

[gsbuickman]

Hiya Guys ,

Here's the 2nd mauser that I picked up this morning. A beautiful all #'s matching 1891 Argentine Mauser from my buddy Don. This is chambered in 7.65x53 Argentine & has a pretty nice 3x9x40 bdc scope on it sighted in @ 100 yds. He also included 100 rds of privy partisan ammo & another 20 rds of shells hand loaded to 308 specs. Here are a few specs on the rifle :

Argentine Mauser
Caliber: 7.65x53mm Argentine
Capacity: 5
Sights: Rear sight adjustable for elevation and front sight adjustable for windage
Features: Manual safety; and Mauser action
Action: Bolt
Weight: 8.8 pounds
Barrel Length: 29.13"
Overall Length: 48.6"
MSRP $600.00

For more info there's a pretty good article on the Argentine here :

http://www.guns.com/reviews/ludwig-loewe-company-1891-argentine-mauser/

 

[gsbuickman]

The front sight is missing but the barrel hasn't been cut and recrown, so I'll order a new front sight and get it replaced. I realize I don't need it but I don't like the Sporter look so I'll do it just because

 

[browningguy]

Very nice, mine is very accurate with mild loads. These were apparently popular sporter conversions back in the 50's, mine is all matching with a peep sight added.

 

[gsbuickman]

Very nice, mine is very accurate with mild loads. These were apparently popular sporter conversions back in the 50's, mine is all matching with a peep sight added.

Nice, I was thinking about picking up some Mojo or tech sights for it as well as a few other rifles I have as well.

 

[LoonWulf]

Nice guns guys!

 

[22250Rem]

Wow..... You are really accumulating some nice Mausers recently. First I read about that Swede carbine and now a 91 Argentine. Both of them come from the same seller? Never owned an Argentine or played around with the 7.65x53 cartridge but years ago those Argentine actions became the basis of some nice rifles. I've read good things of the cartridge and I'd love to play around with some handloads for it as I already load 303 British and have lots of .311-.312" bullets around here. The prediction from me is that you're gonna get real fond of that one.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

What do you mean by "hand loaded to 308 specs?" The .308 is a high pressure cartridge, around 10,000 CUP more than the .30-06. The 91 Mauser is not designed for that kind of pressure.

 

[tark]

What do you mean by "hand loaded to 308 specs?" The .308 is a high pressure cartridge, around 10,000 CUP more than the .30-06. The 91 Mauser is not designed for that kind of pressure.

Norma used to load the 7.65X53 with a 150 grain bullet @ 2920 FPS. That's hotter than a 308. How do they do it? Simple. The Mauser case is larger than the 308 and it has more powder capacity. It can be loaded to the same velocities as the 308, with less pressure. An even better comparison is the 30-06 vs. the 308. The 308 operates at higher pressures than the 06, but offers no increase in velocity with any given bullet weight.

Same principle with the 7.65 vs 308

 

[LoonWulf]

playing with quickloads standard specs 22" barrel. RL-17, and a norma .311/150 should be able to come close to 2950 and stay within pressure limit, the other powders i played with come out in the high 28s

I honestly didnt realize the cartridge was capable of that kind of performance. QL says Map is 56Kpsi does that sound right?

 

[browningguy]

Personally I never load mine that hot, I'm using the Speer 180 gr. .311" SP loaded to about 2450 fps with R15. It's extremely accurate and will shoot through any deer that walks the planet.

I'm a big fan of the 1891, but you have to remember that the guns are 125 years old or so. While it was one of the best guns made in it's day the metallurgy wasn't anywhere near as good as today. I also shoot a 7x57 with 173 gr. SP's at around 2450, and a 9.3x74 with 273 gr. SP's at 2350 fps, all of them will do their job well at those velocities, no reason to try to hot rod them and perhaps make a big mistake. When I want to shoot something faster I pull out the .243/.270/.308/30-06/.300 Winny, all of them shoot plenty faster in a modern rifle.

 

[bannockburn]

gsbuickman

Well now you're two for two in your classic Mauser rifle acquisitions! Keep up the good work!

 

[ants]

QL says Map is 56Kpsi does that sound right?

Original spec was metric, set at an even 390.00 MPa (mega pascals).

Converted it is 56,565psi.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

MSRP $600??
The manufacturer’s suggested retail price (MSRP) is the amount of money the producer of a product recommends the product be sold for in retail stores. I don't think anyone is making these anymore.
I see that you copied that from that web site.
I hope that you didn't pay close to that price. When it comes to surplus rifles the ones in original condition are the ones that bring the higher prices.
Now the ones like Browningguy,s rifle that are pretty much a custom rifle and bring good money too.
When it comes to a basic drill and chop sporter you shorter, they just don't hold much value. Pretty much all collectors value is gone once it has been drilled and tapped.
Now this is not saying that the rifle is junk. In fact I have see drill and chopped surplus sporter that were great shooters. The plus side is that they can be picked up at pretty fair prices.
I ended up with a few chopped Spanish Mausers a few years ago. One was a hell of a shooter and the other would keyhole at 10 yards. I ended up treading both to a friend for a M44 Mosin. My friends plan was to make nice sporters out of both. But he ended up selling both to a guy for $400.
From time to time I see these type of rifles in pawn shops for under $200. I pass on them because I prefer them in military dress.

 

[Scooter22]

Nice sporterised Mausers. They make great hunting rifles. But I would never load hot for any M91, 93 or 95 Mauser action. Blowing one up isn't my concern but a primer or case failure is. They don't have good gas handling and you'll get a face full possibly blinding you. I have one of the handy M1916 Spanish short rifles in .308. But I don't shoot standard loads in it. I use .300 Savage data.

 

[jdh]

For Gunny, Work in progress:

There is varnish all over the metal, someone has started a checkering job on the stock, but the metal has not been altered.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

This thread brought back memories of walking into a "wholesale" store in the 1960s and seeing a rack of Argentine calvary carbines (and not having spare cash).

I am expecting a big nostalgia craze for the 1950s-style sporterized ex-military rifles. In a way, it was a minor era in firearms history when there was a glut in military surplus, a drought of commercial sporters and military rifles had to be excellant to unissued condition to be collectible.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

There are a lot of people in the surplus collector community that call these type of rifles bubba sporters. But as Carl pointed out, there was a shortage of hunting rifles in the 1950s and there were a lot of surplus rifles to be had. A good name brand hunting rifles MSRP was from $125 to $200. During the 50s and 60s You could mail order a surplus rifle in excellent condition from $16 to $30. There were companies like Golden State Firearms that offered Sporter rifles for $15 to $20 more then a standard, and have it shipped to your house for $1.
http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_santafe.html
There are some that have started collecting these type of sporters. As the surplus market dries up, I may have to start looking for some Golden State rifles.

 

[Merle1]

What do you mean by "hand loaded to 308 specs?" The .308 is a high pressure cartridge, around 10,000 CUP more than the .30-06. The 91 Mauser is not designed for that kind of pressure.

That is asking for trouble in a M1891 - however should do just fine in a M1909.

 

[gsbuickman]

The way I understand it this rifle has not been sporterized or Bubbafide. I believe this is the original stock which has not been chopped and the barrel hasn't been cut & recrowned either. The front sight is missing as I mentioned earlier but I will soon be replacing it. The bolt has been turned down for scope clearance and the stock has been inletted for the bolt. As far as the Optics go I think it has one of those special Mauser no tap or drill mounts. It may look like a Sporter because the front sight is missing but I don't consider it one.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

Forend of the stock has been cut. Front band with bayonet lug is missing. Stock has been sanded. Hand guard missing.Those are weaver scope bases, drilled and tapped.

 

[gsbuickman]

gsbuickman

Well now you're two for two in your classic Mauser rifle acquisitions! Keep up the good work!

I also picked up this beautiful Norwegian krag Jorgensen also in 6.5 Swedish that was made by Steyr in 1897. I know it's not a Mauser per se, but it's close enough I'll call that 3 for 3 ...

BTW, the Krag is the one on the bottom and the Argentine is the one on the top

 

[Merle1]

The way I understand it this rifle has not been sporterized or Bubbafide. I believe this is the original stock which has not been chopped and the barrel hasn't been cut & recrowned either. The front sight is missing as I mentioned earlier but I will soon be replacing it. The bolt has been turned down for scope clearance and the stock has been inletted for the bolt. As far as the Optics go I think it has one of those special Mauser no tap or drill mounts. It may look like a Sporter because the front sight is missing but I don't consider it one.

Sorry, but that is wrong. The stock has been cut, the bolt handle modified and drilled & tapped for a scope. You will not be able to "restore" it to original military configuration, so save your money & shoot it as is.

 

[tark]

That is asking for trouble in a M1891 - however should do just fine in a M1909.

Read post # 8. The 7.65 can safely reach 308 velocities with loads that are perfectly safe in a 91. Norma used to load a 150gr bullet at 2920FPS for this cartridge. Those boxes were not marked "for 1909 only " They were safe in all Argentine Mausers.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Hodgdon's Number 26 manual lists 2650 as maximum velocity for the 7.65 Argentine with a 150 grain bullet.

 

[gsbuickman]

I've learned a lot about reloading by perusing a great many threads both here and at Gun & Game, but I don't reload so as far as this Argentine goes I'll just be shooting privy partisan factory ammo with it.