My New Baby: The PPK

[Deleted member 127505]

Well I got my hands on a Firearm I have always admired since watching James Bond. My next door neighbor of 8 years has gotten ill so he has sold it to me.

It is a Pre 68 (No import marks) Walther PPK in 380. The date is 1965. Since I have never purchased a Walther before. I was wondering what is the going rate as I have seen them between 500-2500 dollars. To me this just seems like a regular ol' Walther PPK. Has never been abused has at least 90 % bluing. I know there has to be some Walther Fans out there. Basicly I would like to know what it is worth. And are the Pre 68 no import markings rarer.

Thanks Again guys.

 

[Deleted member 127505]

Oh one more question. He had told me that the 380 was a rarer production for this year of MFG. Is this true?

 

[Jim K]

Most of the Walther PP and PPK pistols made up to the end of WWII went to the German police, military or Nazi party groups like the SS. Those were almost all in 7.65mm (.32 ACP), which was in the German government supply system, where the 9mm Kurz (.380 ACP) was not. After production resumed in the post-war era, with the U.S. as the principal market, many Americans felt that the .380 was the better defence cartridge. After the GCA of 1968 was passed, the rules written for enforcement were such as to ban small pistols in .25 ACP and .32 ACP, under the delusion that they were "crime guns" where the same size gun in .380 was a "sporting arm." (Government foolishness, of course, but that is nothing new.)

Many "experts" likewise believe that .32 ACP is a weak cartridge that can't harm anyone, where .380 has smashing power that will knock down elephants. More foolishness. But the idea has taken root and most sales of the (American made) PP and PPK today are in .380.

In summary, the .380 is the rarer caliber prior to 1968, so your neighbor is correct about a gun from that era.

The .380 in 90% will run $500+; the .32 will go for under $400, so the caliber does make a difference.

Jim

 

[Deleted member 127505]

Thanks so much for the info Jim.

 

[Deleted member 127505]

Jim you seem to know what your talking about. Are there a lot of Post war non import marked ppk on the us market. I can only seem to find about 3 which are for sale. 2 of them .32

 

[Jim K]

Any gun (or anything else, with a few exceptions) commercially imported into the US since around 1900 has to have an import mark of some kind. Before 1968, that was the country-of-origin (COO) mark, like "England", "Germany", etc. With most commercial products, that was included in the factory mark; if it was not, it had to be added. The GCA '68 mandated that guns did not need the COO but had to have the name of the importer and the caliber instead. That was the result of the difficulty in tracing the rifle used in the JFK assassination, when it took days of searching the records of a dozen importers to find out who sold Oswald the gun.

Prior to 1968, guns that did not have the COO as part of the commercial marking had to have it added somewhere. After 1968, they had to have the importer's name and address, which was usually part of the factory marking for commercial imports.

So, commercially imported PP's and PPK's won't usually have an "import mark" like milsurp guns do. But somewhere it will either say, for example, "Made in West Germany" and/or the name of the importer (usually Interarmco/Interarms, Alexandria, VA) and will have been applied by the factory.

So there are NO commercially imported PP's or PPK's without one or the other form of import mark, either they were factory marked, or the mark was added to comply with the law. But guns with factory markings that complied with the law did NOT have any other "import mark" added, so if you mean the kind of post '68 marking seen on many milsurp guns, no commercially imported Walthers had them.

Some few post-war guns may have been bought in Germany by U.S. GI's or others and brought back; even those will have the "Made in" marking (in English). Even pre-war commercially imported pistols had the COO mark. Pre-war and wartime pistols brought back by returning GIs, of course, did not have any such markings.

Jim

 

[Ron James]

And if you want a James Bond Gun you need to get a .32 and one marked Manurhin. The French Manurhin PPK's were the ones sold to the British secret Service. BTW, regardless of what is roll marked on the slide, Your PPK was build by Manurhin of France.

 

[Jim K]

Walther claims that manufacture of the PP and PPK began at Ulm in 1955. Some pistols were actually made in France with parts given final finish and assembled in Germany, but they are marked as made in Germany, and were proved in Germany. In some cases, the reverse was true. Pistols were ordered for the Berlin police, but regulations required that only guns made by the four WWII allies could be issued in Berlin, so German-made pistols were shipped to France for assembly and marking by Manurhin. (Today, the only factory making the PP and PPK is in the U.S., operated by S&W, the U.S. licensee.)

Jim

 

[MMCSRET]

I recently picked up a PP in 32, supposedly dated 1964 which makes it a Manurhin but marked Ulm. I have never been able to find a definitive source of manufacturing dates. Is there one???

 

[Ron James]

Jim, you're probably right in your assessment, but I was using information from Marschall that reads : from 1954: " At first Walther only assembled PP/PPK pistols as manufactured at Manurhin although the slides had the Walther Banner on them. actual production at Walther started in 1986 " . " Among other groups the Manurhin Mod PPK was procured by the British Secret Service from serial number 126000 ( like the service pistol of "James Bond,007)''. : his words:.

 

[WardenWolf]

Regardless of details, IrishBastard, you have a very nice gun. The market has been so flooded with S&W's junk clones of the PPK that finding a truly good original European PPK is quite a find. The PPK itself is a sound enough design, though its integrity has been compromised in more recent years by poor quality production. I have a few Soviet military pistols that were based on the PPK (Makarov, P-64, and PA-63), and they retain the quality one would expect in a true military firearm while introducing some more modern features.

 

[Dr.Rob]

I'd insure it for $800-1000. It's not that they are unavailable, but in that caliber and pre-68 by the time you find another to replace it the price may have doubled.

 

[Guns and more]

Take a look at Gunbroker.com and see what they sell for.
The Interarms US versions are selling in the $500 range, WWII versions are all over the place. A collector may pay a premium for a WWII versions.