My RockIsland 1911 out-performs USP 45

[Retro]

(New Pic)-My RockIsland 1911 out-performs USP 45

I attached picture of my RIA 1911 and USP 45.

http://www.pbase.com/wqewqe/image/60823153

Enjoy!

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I was quite disappointed with my new HK USP 45, picked up for $900.

I spent one hour at the local gunshop trying to decide between a Sig Sauer P220 and the USP 45, and in the end I was intrigued by the recoil reduction system of USP 45, and bought it.

Today, I took it to the range and tried to compare it with my Rockisland 1911 picked up for less than $300. I was hoping to put the Rockisland 1911 to shame. But I was disappointed.

1. Guns.

- Rock Island 1911 .45 Government, military sight, bushing muzzle brake. $289
(factory trigger, etc. Everything is factory-installed.)

- HK USP .45, Variant 1, three-dot regular sight. $900


2. Recoil.

My rockisland 1911 has a $15 bushing muzzle brake, and the recoil elevated my arm 20 degree above horizontal plan consistently. When I fired my USP 45, my arm elevated some 25-30 degree above the horizontal. And subjectively, I felt more recoil with the USP 45 than the 1911 .45.

So, does that mean that the 15 dollar cosmetic bushing muzzle brake for 1911 out-performed the patented recoil reduction system? I am perplexed.

3. Ammo Feeding.
Using the same Wolf .45 FMJ ammo.

My rockisland did not have a single misfeed after almost 1000 rounds.

My USP is another story. I fired 150 rounds through it today, and I had three separate incidents of the slide not returning to battery (5 mm of the slide protruding out, and I have to push the slide forward into battery). I hope this is just a part of the breaking-in process but I didn't know that USP required such breaking-in period.

No jams for both either pistols.

4. Accuracy.

At 12 yards,

1911- 2.5 inch grouping
USP - 2.5 inch grouping

At 30 yards,

1911- 5 - 5.5 inch grouping
USP- 6.0-6.5 inch grouping

I am kinda pissed because I just picked up a pistol three times the price of rockisland, and still the rockisland out-performed it.

Any thoughts?

Retro

 

[cookekdjr]

Sell the USP.
Buy a used SIG p220 and stainless RIA in .38 super.
Pocket the change.
Have fun.
-David

 

[HighVelocity]

I don't think this is a fair comparison. You've shot 1k rounds through your RIA but you just bought the Hk.

The truth is YOU outperformed the Hk with the RIA. Put 1k though the Hk and come back and update us.

 

[Boats]

How dare you suggest that the Teutonic engineered, sprinkled with magical midnight Black Forest pixie dust HK USP tested by the world famous German Combat Divers cannot outperform an indifferently hardened, Fillipino-American special machined during the gastrointestinal cramping of a San Miguel hangover?!?

I'll take this:

over this:

Every time.

 

[Cocked & Locked]

Buy a used SIG p220 and stainless RIA in .38 super.

...or perhaps a factory hard chromed RIA in .38 Super

 

[1911Tuner]

RIA

Hey...Sometimes it happens that a slandered and maligned offering will clean a Wundergun's clock. I have a nearly bone stock early 80s production Auto Ordnance 1911 (Now, ya'll don't gimme a hard time.) that consistently outshot and outran my 5-inch Colt NRM born in or around Y2K.

The only things on the AO that it wasn't born with are:

Extractor, hammer/sear/disconnect, and the hammer strut. The cast extractor broke early on...no surprises there...The other parts were replaced as a matter of habit. All else is stock, including the cheap, 2-piece barrel.
(Well..the grip panels too, but they don't make the gun run any better.)

The Colt now does fine, by the way.

 

[Marhaben]

Your USP will probably outlast the RIA, though.

 

[dracphelan]

I love my RIA. But, do give your H&K about 400 more rounds before you decide to dump it. It just might need a break-in period.

Though, I'm thinking my next purchase will be a compact RIA 1911. I love the size.

 

[choochboost]

Why don't you just sell that USP to me for half price since its such a piece of crap.

 

[MrAcheson]

You probably need to break the USP in a bit more before you start making definitive determinations. The lower perceived recoil from the 1911 might be a function of the guns weight, not the high tech muzzle brake you have on there. I believe the 1911 has at least a half pound on the USP.

I really like my RIA 1911. It was a bargain and the trigger was wonderful out of the box. I'm just wondering how long the gun will last. So far so good though.

 

[Rotorflyr]

Like every one said, shoot the USP more and you'll find you do better with it.

As for the recoil issue, the weight of the RIA is 2.4lbs and the USP is 1.65lb
(assuming that both are full size models) which is going to make a difference in felt recoil.

 

[Rob1035]

i must say, i enjoy these kinds of stories

 

[10-Ring]

I think part of it is psychological too. I had a P220 that was just a lemon. Since then, I haven't found a SIG product I liked. I think once you get that bad taste in your mouth & in your psyche, it sticks and is amplified whenever you encounter similar guns.
Honestly, give the USP a few 100 more rounds, get use to it...USPs are fantastic handguns...I've got 4 and call each one a fave!

 

[Retro]

Thanks for the input.

The most problem I had with HK at this early stage of testing is the stronger recoil. I was originally under the impression that nothing could kick more than a 1911. So I was going in with the assumption that USP .45 will have the same kicks as the 9mm despite the lighter weight, given this hyped-up recoil reduction system. Obviously, I was greatly disappointed in that regard.

I agree that I need to work on getting use to the three dot sight on the USP a bit more since it did take me 2 sec longer to aim than the 1911 military sight.

But slide not returning to battary was unacceptable to me. And hopefully, like everyone else said, it will go away with more rounds through it.

I am new to this polymer frame stuff, and I admit I have an inherent bias against it since I am used to the steel frame of 1911.
-------
Quick question, will CLP/gun oil damage the polymer frame after a while? Since polymers are hydrophobic and gun oils are hydrophobic too. And like will dissolve like.

The new gun came with white silicone grease on movable parts. And silicone is neutral to polymers. That's why I have this question.

Thanks.
---------
one more thing:

For a $900 dollar gun, it is kind of cheap not to include a chamber indicator!

 

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's All-


Wow! The RIA out performed the H&K USP? I've heard many good
things a'bout the RIA gun (and the Springer GI/Mil Spec, which I own),
but NEVER dreamed of them out performing a H&K USP. Perhaps you
should have chosen the SIG P220 for comparison; as I believe it too not
only be a bit more accurate than the H&K, but I also think you could have
put a few $$$ in your pocket~!

 

[HSMITH]

I have tried and tried to like the USP line, just can't do it. I would take a RIA over a USP too, it isn't just you (it might be just the two of us, but at least we aren't alone ).

 

[Longbow]

Sell the USP and put the money on Roth-IRA fund.

You should've bought an XD instead.

 

[wally]

I'm a big fan of RIA and think they offer fantastic value.

I think HK makes great guns but are priced beyond what I'm willing to spend for a handgun.

I shoot lots of Wolf .45 FMJ, but to be fair to the HK, the new Wolf polymer coated ammo seems to have a lot more friction in the mag and often gives me troubles in double stack .45ACP guns and absolutely no issues in single stacks.

Try some brass cased ammo before you condemn the out of the box performance of the HK.

--wally.

EDIT: I've an RIA that is about to break 8000 rounds. Only issue was the link broke at about 3500 rounds. A standard Wilson's 0.278" $5 replacement fixed it.

 

[Powderman]

To satisfy your doubts, I suggest that you find someone with a Ransom Rest, and shoot both guns for group. Shoot five, 5-round groups, and measure them all.

And (definitely not a reflection to your shooting ability, and definitely not a slam) if you don't have a Ransom rest handy, shoot from sandbags at a highly visible target with good contrast.

 

[daysleeprx]

Where do you live that a new USP costs that much money?

 

[kbheiner7]

This was a surprise to you?

 

[Retro]

I live in the Southeast, and I bought it from a shop that is not a HK-dealership. I know new USP probably worth $800 for everything but I had to trade in 4 of my old guns, and that particular shop gave me a fair price for the trade, and I got rid of my old shotgun, broken Polish P64, Roman WASR-10 (I replaced it with a Yugo M70). P64 was a horrible little gun, one metal piece fractured during double-action.

Rock Island is more accurate than my Springfield 1911. Those Philipino-Americans sure can make some cheap but quality guns.

Thanks for the input. I will shoot the USP some more.

 

[Shipwreck]

Try a different ammo besides Wolf and see how it goes...

 

[Longbow]

Rock Island is more accurate than my Springfield 1911. Those Philipino-Americans sure can make some cheap but quality guns

They're entirely made in the Philippines, with American inspirations.
Mine has >10K rounds now and still doing great. Truly one of my best buys.

I agree on trying different ammo on the USP. Every gun has their own fav's.

 

[mpthole]

I have to jump in on this one since I'm a fan of both guns.

My USP .45 is the most accurate handgun I own (for now), using my handloads. My RIA is no slouch in the accuracy department (for its price), even close to the HK, just not quite as good. People are amazed though when they shoot my RIA and see how accurate it is. With the HK, its expected and not much of a surprise.

and the recoil elevated my arm 20 degree above horizontal plan

Huh?? I've never heard recoil "measured" like that before...

The perceived recoil is probably due to the higher bore axis on the HK than on the 1911. Ever since I changed my grip and stance, I hardly notice recoil when I'm shooting a .45 anymore. (Need to get the full-power .44 mag loads out for that! ) Although HKs are harder (I think) to shoot fast and accurately.

since it did take me 2 sec longer to aim than the 1911 military sight

Do you know this for a fact? Were you using a shot timer?

As far as durability goes... I'll stick with my HK, thanks. I've got as many rounds through each of them (~8-10k/ea) and have never had a problem with the HK. The RIA is another matter: had to replace the extractor, ejector sheared off, barrel bushing broke, front sight fell off, recoil spring plug cracked, barrel link pin would just fall out.

As has been said, try some decent quality ammo in the HK and shooting from a rest.

... and if you still don't like it - oh well - you can always sell it. HK's aren't for everybody.