my saiga 308 shoots like crap. help!

[noob_shooter]

It was about 22F degrees today with winds moving East at about 15mph. The rifle is equipped with center point rifle scope 4-16x-40mm. Took the 308 out for the first time ever starting @ 50 yds. The shoots all were like 10-12" high to the top right! To cut this short, even after running out of elevation and windage adjustment room on my scope, the gun was still shooting 3-5" high to top right.

I was using federal and Winchester 150grain soft point. I didn't bore sight my scope. Instead, I eyeballed it and installed it onto the scope mount and it looks parallel to the barrel (about 2" from center of scope to center of bore)

1. Was it me? First time shooting a high powered rifle, but I can't be that bad considering it's only 50yds.
2. Temperature?
3. Not bore sighted?
4. Can't be the scope cuz I used it on my 17hmr and very very accurate and holds zero.

So what am I doing wrong? Already shot 26 rounds of .308 and don't wanna waste anymore.

I have not tried shooting with iron sights yet..

thanks!

 

[WardenWolf]

It's either (1) your scope, or (2) your mount. Since your scope's fine, it's probably your mount. How are you mounting your scope?

There's a very slim chance the hardpoint on the gun is seriously off, but that's unlikely. I'd verify that the rings are properly seated on the rails of whatever you're mounting it to.

 

[noob_shooter]

this is my gun.. scope mounted this way..



excuse this noob, but what do you mean "hardpoint?"

 

[lipadj46]

I would assume either your scope mount on your Saiga is cockeyed or the UTG mount is cockeyed. I do not agree with the previous poster that the chances are slim that the Saiga mount is crooked. I have come to expect anything from these russian rifles. Trouble shooting is going to be a b!tch. First thing is to get a second mount to see if the problem is repeated. Try to find a BP-02 mount from tantal, kalinka or ebay. They are russian and can be adjusted for such things. I assume this is a common occurrence as their mount and scopes with built in mounts can all be adjusted via screws for elevation and windage to compensate for crooked rifle side mounts.

 

[noob_shooter]

better pics

 

[Highland Ranger]

Nice toes. The scope mount looks like it isn't seated all the way back and the set screws bent the aluminum bracket. (did the same thing myself)

 

[lipadj46]

Like I said what you are describing means 1 of 3 things:

1) The scope is defective,
2) the UTG mount is defective,
3) the side mount on the rifle is crooked.

This is assuming you have it mounted properly which it looks like you did not seat it back all the way and your mount is bent so this may be the problem. You are going to have to try to isolate the problem and this will require another mount and ideally another rifle. But a second mount will do, the BP-02 mounts are $50 or so and I would suggest getting one of those because if you find the problem to be the saiga side mount then the BP-02 can be adjusted to compensate. And like the poster above said make sure the mount is seated fully on the rail before you go tightening it up because the aluminum will deform.

Edit: If you stick with the UTG mount get the quick release mount. It greatly reduces the chances of doing what you did.

 

[jpwilly]

Just by the looks of it to me the mount appears to be mounted with the front side lower than the rear. That UTG mount looks like it could be difficult to get on straight and I agree with lipad46, go with the qd mount you can't go wrong.

I have that scope on a 30-06 bolt rifle and it's held zero fine. I'm actually impressed with it for being an el cheapo optics aren't horrible either.

 

[lipadj46]

Noob Shooter check out one thing. If you loosen up the 3 screws can you slide the mount back until it is fully seated? For whatever reason it looks like you did not slide it forward all the way and you mount is FUBARed. You may be able to slide it up and torque the screws down and get it to bend back but I think your mount is done. At least a new one is only $35. That is what the picture looks like at least.

 

[chris in va]

Is it just me, or does the scope look like it's facing down just a hair? Would certainly explain it shooting high.

Get it boresighted first.

 

[elmerfudd]

So far I've had pretty good luck with Saiga's, but the rail on my PSL has the same problem you're experiencing. On my PSL it is the rail, since I can put the same scope and mount on my S308 and the problem goes away.

On yours it's either the rail, the mount or the scope, and personally I'd bet on it being the rail. Myself, I plan on trying to modify a BP02 mount in order to correct for the misaligned rail. There's a lot less to lose if I mess up a mount than if I mess up a rifle.

 

[WardenWolf]

I'm pretty sure it's the UTG mount. That UTG mount uses set screws, meaning it's highly variable and won't always attach right. The UTG mount I got uses a lever lock, and consistently locks in almost exactly the same every time. The lever lock mount is much higher quality and works "right", in the same way the Russians intended.

The "hardpoint" I speak of is the rail mount on the side of the gun that your UTG mount attaches to. In that picture, your scope is clearly crooked, angled way wrong.

 

[lipadj46]

If you look at the last picture up there you can clearly see the scope mount is bent from being installed incorrectly. Look at the middle screw it is pushing up and bending the aluminum. My UTG mount does not look like that so I think that is the answer. Hold a straight edge up to it and it is clearly bent badly.

 

[atlanticfire]

Its not you. I had one of those mounts and had the same problem! Get another mount! Everything else should be good. The utg mounts just suck.

 

[lipadj46]

UTG mounts are fine when installed properly.

 

[rangerruck]

First off, you never zero a rifle with a scope, you allways use irons first.
That way, after testing A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT AMMO, you can at least
tell if your rifle has accuracy potential, and the saiga 308 does.
Then, when zeroing your rifle , pic the best 3 DIFF TYPES OF AMMO, it
likes best. Did I mention allways test zero with a bunch of DIFF TYPES
OF AMMO?
Test your best 3 types at 50 yds, with open sites, and be serious about it,
trying to now find it's favorite.
Then , when you know this , mount a scope, and repeat the above, wiht the best ammo, at the same distance. if you see a major diff in accuracy fall off, or even if it is not better, then you KNOW you have a scope/mount problem.
Do this for zeroing all your rifles, and you will never guess again.
Lastly, you are shooting a Euro made Saiga, you said you tried to zero
with american made ammo. This is a no-no, as most euro made ammo, and american made ammo, differin diameter, as well as land and groove dimensions or euromade rifle bbls, and american made bbls.
Go get you a bunch of foreign milsurp, including, S. african, nazi south american stuff, and portugese and singapore or korean is fine as well.
Do not use Indian stuff, unless you just want to hurt me, and your Saiga.

 

[rangerruck]

Also, I could be wrong, but from the pics, it looks like your occular bell is touching the rear of the mount, and your front bell is touching the rifle rear site.
No part of you scope should ever be touching anything, except the rings
that fit around the tube.

 

[Gunfighter123]

"Also, I could be wrong, but from the pics, it looks like your occular bell is touching the rear of the mount, and your front bell is touching the rifle rear site.
No part of you scope should ever be touching anything, except the rings
that fit around the tube."


Looks like it to me also.

 

[atlanticfire]

UTG mounts are fine when installed properly.

After working in the firearms industry for some time I can tell you that just "fine" usually doesn’t cut it. I've seen more then my share of side mount and UTG are at the bottom of the list.

 

[kirkcdl]

Buy a QD mount with a weaver rail,if the rail on the reciever is crooked,which is not unheard of,then simply shim the front ring.I had to do this on a SAR-2,it ended up just fine...But,those screw-on mounts suck for a lot of reasons...There's a reason they're the least expensive mount on the market...When you get the QD mount,if the lever doesn't lock it up tight,go to Tantals site,there's a tutorial on how to adjust the lever...

 

[lipadj46]

After working in the firearms industry for some time I can tell you that just "fine" usually doesn’t cut it. I've seen more then my share of side mount and UTG are at the bottom of the list.

I guess since you are the expert we should take your word for it. I just know from my own personal experience that the UTG mount works just as well as my Kobra's mount on my Saiga 12. In this particular case it is obvious that the user installed the scope wrong and damaged the mount.

I use Weaver rings on my shotguns and M1A because they work fine too. I hear people say the same thing about them also but I usually go by what works based on my own experiences and It sounds like you do also. This problem would not have happened by the way if the OP used the quick release UTG mount.

 

[WardenWolf]

The utg mounts just suck.

I use the UTG lever lock version. It works great. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it, and I've used the real thing on my PSL. That UTG mount saved my hunt when I broke my scope and I was able to quickly release it and switch to iron sights. I was chasing down a wounded javelina and had I not been using a quick-release mount I'd have never been able to hit it.

 

[atlanticfire]

Now don't get me wrong. I like a lot of UTG products. I have several of them on rifles but I tested that side mount out against some of the higher end mounts and found it lacking in both quality and strength. If you like it, run with it. Just say there is a lot better.

 

[WardenWolf]

I dropped my 10 pound rifle on the scope. Broke the scope, but the mount was untouched.

 

[atlanticfire]

Again, I'm discussing the mount in question.(three screw in OP) Not generalizing UTG products.