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My Sheriff finds the law inconvenient, breaks it

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Andrew Rothman, May 27, 2005.

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  1. Andrew Rothman

    Andrew Rothman Member

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    As I wrote in my blog...

     
  2. Vernal45

    Vernal45 member

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    WELL, I guess its all nice and Legal, since it was the sheriff breaking the law. :rolleyes:
     
  3. 2nd Amendment

    2nd Amendment member

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    Well I'll get slapped by both sides but frankly, guys, there are enough examples of police corruption, and more every day, without trying to make a mountain out a mole's dream about a mole hill like this. :) Really, Mr Sheriff covered his ass and nothing more. Calling it breaking the law is a stretch...
     
  4. Andrew Rothman

    Andrew Rothman Member

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    Break the law is exactly what he did. He was required by law to accept applications Wednesday, Thursday and Friday and would not do so.

    What would you call it?

    (And incidentally, other metro departments accepted the old ones with no hassle!)
     
  5. 2nd Amendment

    2nd Amendment member

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    I'd call it exactly what I said, CYA. But if you really feel that waiting for the "proper" forms according to the new regulations is breaking the law then by all means, pursue the issue. Personally if I were applying for a CCW I'd have waited anyway specifically to avoid "modifying" the old forms and potentially having some SOB come back in a couple years telling me my CCW was not valid and I would be facing a felony weapons charge. Never mind the liklihood of beating such a wrap, it takes time and money to win.

    My point is simply there's enough serious issues out there without haggling over a technicality that almost certainly made no real difference to anyone. it's not a defense, just prioritizing.
     
  6. Lobotomy Boy

    Lobotomy Boy Member

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    Technically he might have been breaking a law, but it does sound like classic CYA, and as far as breaking the law goes, I drive 10-15 mph over the legal limit every day on my way to and from work, as do 90 percent of the people on the freeway. I have two house cats and a parakeet, which puts me over the legal limit for pets in my city. In other words, like the vast majority of people, including the Carver Co. Sheriff and most likely everyone on this list, I disregard, if not complete laws, details of laws every single day.

    That's not to condone flagrant violations of civil rights and laws--it's one thing to drive the speed of traffic on the freeway and quite another to tear through residential neighborhoods at 100 mph while children are riding their bikes on the street. But it seems to me that the sheriff's violation comes closer to the former example than the latter.

    A man should choose his fights carefully, and this might not be the best fight to pick with the sheriff.
     
  7. Andrew Rothman

    Andrew Rothman Member

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    ..by breaking the law!

    It has nothing to do with my feelings: it's a fact.

    I did. I politely put the County Attorney on notice that we're watching -- even for samll transgressions. This may deter them from trying bigger ones.
     
  8. HankB

    HankB Member

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    This sounds like yet another in a long line of instances where the law requires certain actions from government functionaries, but establishes NO consequence whatsoever when they fail to take the actions required by law. :mad:
     
  9. gc70

    gc70 Member

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    Matt, you are absolutely right - the sheriff did break the law by not accepting applications last week. And you did what any responsible citizen should do when they believe the law is being broken by contacting the proper authorities. If you think that the County Attorney was not appropriately responsive, then you should take further action. You could contact your legislators to urge a change in the law. Or you could contact the media to draw attention to the situation. Or you could start a grass-roots campaign for citizen action. Or you could just file one of the new applications on Tuesday.
     
  10. Archie

    Archie Member

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    Matt...

    How is this sheriff in terms of processing (legal) applications and issuing permits?

    I tend to be more incensed over systemic violations of the spirit of the law than one-time violations of the letter of the law. If this guy is decent in issuing, give him a break; if he intentionally refuses to issue, make a stink and elect a new sheriff.
     
  11. Andrew Rothman

    Andrew Rothman Member

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    Well, it's now (again) a shall-issue state, so he's fine, in that he generally follows the law.

    I know this isn't the end of the world; applications will be accepted on Tuesday. It's more the ignorance of or contempt for the letter of the law that bugs me.

    (My 2003 permit still has three years on it, so this isn't a personal fight for me; I just think right is right.)
     
  12. Hawkmoon

    Hawkmoon Member

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    Matt, I don't think I agree with your position. Read carefully the section of the law that you emphasized with bold face. It says that failure of the DPS to adopt standards shall not delay the processing of applications, and it says that failure of the DPS to adopt standards shall not invalidate permits ISSUED under previous forms.

    So if the new law requires that applications be on a standard state form, and the new law requires that said form contain specific information which is NOT asked for on the current form -- how the heck can he accept an application without also breaking the law? The second half of what you emphasized doesn't pertain to applications, so focus on the first half. Looks to be like Mr. Sheriff was caught in one of those damned-if-I-do-and-damned-if-I-don't situations. Cut the guy some slack -- there's no way he could comply with the law. If he accepeted applications he would be acting on incomplete information (in violation of the law), yet if he refused to accept applications he would be violating the law by delaying an application.

    Catch 22
     
  13. gunsmith

    gunsmith member

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    what bugs me

    is that if Matt or 2a or myself brake a stupid law we get creamed-but it's ok if you work for the gov :fire:
     
  14. Andrew Rothman

    Andrew Rothman Member

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    The app must be on a standard state form, and must contain the appropriate info. Nothing in the law invalidated an application in which the city is written next to the County box.
     
  15. artherd

    artherd member

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    I have no sympathy for idoits in power.

    If one branch passes laws that the other can't realistically enforce, FINE.

    Prosecute, and fire all the individuals and disband their orignizations on both branches untill they elect people who can figure the process out!

    You think I get to speed because if I didn't, I'd need to cover my ass for being late to work? Come on!


    If the government were run like a business, there would be no need for a federal income tax at all, that is how efficent it would be.
     
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