My Sig and UPS, WARNING TO 18-20 YEARS OF AGE

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BlazingAngel01

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I received my 229 back form Sig today and it is great. The Short Rest Trigger (SRT) works wonders. I Recommend you try it, they also install a new hammer with it.

Cleaning the stainless steel was a breeze all i really had to do was wipe it down after 100 Rounds thought it and I love the way it looks.

Well as we all know with all the fun with the Weapons we love and hold so dear there are set backs I had my share today.PEOPLE FORM 18 - 20 READ THIS. UPS WILL NOT GIVE YOU YOUR FIREARM EVEN IF THE BOX HAS YOUR NAME ON IT:banghead:. The Man came to my door and asked if i was me and I said yes handed him my ID,Slip form UPS and My Pistol ID card. He looked at them said I'm sorry but I cant give this to you, your not 21. Well after showing him UPS Regulations that said, I'm the owner of the Con tense of the Package, he still wouldn't give me the box and added that He thought I wouldn't get it EVER.:fire:

I went to the HUB and talked with his Boss well She said the same thing UNTIL I said that that would force me to make a report to the ATF and then her Attitude changed. "Well then Sir we can have him go back to your house or He will be back here by Six PM But you must have someone over the age of 21 sign for it at the same Address". The funny thing was the Desk lady thought it was stupid and said she always had problems shipping firearms even working there.

After all is said and done and now that the Flames are out of my eyes, Just let this lesson be learned, Have a FFL send it, or have a Parent so you save time and $75 in gas.:eek:
 
I'd have been strongly tempted to express other sentiments. What if you live alone, or have no contact with your parents (or don't have any)? I'd have no hesitation calling in ATF and the local PD on the issue. Ownership can't be relinquished because of some private corporation's idiotic internal procedure.
 
Just because they are shipping guns they think they are the police. This is true in many different way with different people such as Mall Security FORCE!

If UPS does not want to hand over packages containing a weapon to someone under 21 then they should make that clear before accpeting the order from the seller- and not handle those orders!
 
That's useful information. Disturbing information. They will take it from you but they won't return it. :cuss:
 
The reason is pretty simple. It is illegal to sell a handgun to someone under the age of 21. People under the age of 21 may be in possession of a handgun, but cannot actually own one according to federal law. Some states require that anyone under 21 in possession of a handgun carry a note from a parent or guardian authorizing possession.

Transferring possession of a handgun to someone under 21 can lead to jail time. Their policy is correct.

I'm not saying I agree with it (or about 10,000 other stupid gun laws), but it is the right thing to do legally.

The following is from the BATFE Web site.

"Under the GCA, long guns and long gun ammunition may be sold only to persons 18 years of age or older. Sales of handguns and ammunition for handguns are limited to persons 21 years of age and older."

The language of the actual law is much more complex and refers to "transfer." This quote comes from their FAQs.
 
People under the age of 21 may be in possession of a handgun, but cannot actually own one according to federal law...
Transferring possession of a handgun to someone under 21 can lead to jail time. Their policy is correct.
Click to expand...

Incorrect. An 18 year old cannot purchase a handgun from a FFL but, barring state law, can purchase a pistol privately or be given one as a gift. It is not unlawful, at the federal level, to transfer a handgun to such a person.

Title 18, section 922:

(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile—
(A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.
(2) It shall be unlawful for any person who is a juvenile to knowingly possess—
(A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun...

For purposes of this subsection, the term “juvenile” means a person who is less than 18 years of age.
Click to expand...
 
Take the package from the UPS driver? That's theft. It is "UPS's" in the legal sense, until 1. they drop the package at your door 2. They hand the package over to you or 3. The package is signed for. Until any of these things are accomplished, then the package is still UPS's in terms of legallistically. The OP did the right thing by going to the hub and getting it figured it out. Trying to negotiatie with the driver will not get you anywhere, and trying to steal it from him will only land the police on your front doorstep as well
 
Good Lord people. Most drivers/shippers/carriers do not know ALL the rules like we do regarding handguns. Why did he not give it to you? Simple. What they know and hear is "No handguns under 21". AND...LIABILITY. They don't know about "gifts" or "private sales". To them shipping a pistol back to you is like trying to purchase it from a dealer under 21. No dice.
 
BlazingAngel01: Your a resident of Michigan where it is legal for a 18 yr old to own a handgun, you just can't buy one from a FFL dealer.
Go to the Mich State Police website and copy the law that so you can present it to that fine UPS lady that is so law abiding.
 
You think that's bad? You should have been there when a serious anti-firearm SNOB (no better use of the word) looked down at me from his thick-rimmed glasses and told me that UPS would never TOUCH what was in my package.

What was in my package, you ask?

A shotgun barrel.

I don't think he was an anti because of his store policy, but simply by the tone of his voice and how his expression changed when I answered his simple question, "What's in the package that you need shipped?"

thinking back, I should have said "metal pipe".
 
Nice, I am still waiting on Sig to send my smith the SRT kit. Been waiting a couple of weeks now.
 
Next time I would try have a local FFL send firearms back to the factory. I may even be cheaper cause an FFL can send it USPS. Just talk to your local shop and see what they are willing to do for you. Heck even it they charge ya a little more they what the shipping charge is it would make I worth while not to have to deal with UPS
 
Next time I would try have a local FFL send firearms back to the factory.
Click to expand...

This would be a problem. Not only can an FFL not sell a handgun to someone under 21, they can't transfer one to someone under 21. If Sig had sent the gun back to the FFL he'd have had more problems getting it back than from UPS.

Was there any sort of signature label on the box from UPS that said "Adult Signature Required."? My shipments from Sig always require and adult signature. I don't know if your did or not. If it did, then I don't blame UPS. If Sig sent the gun "adult signature required" then UPS has basically agreed to follow their customer's (Sig's) orders.
 
I showed him all the state Requirement and he still blew it off UPS, State Law, and Federal. All he said was he could get fired and went on his way.

Feanaro: That is the Youth Firearms Act. In Michigan, every Time you but a Firearm you get it. Its a yellow Pamphlet as well as Safety Laws.
 
Not only can an FFL not sell a handgun to someone under 21, they can't transfer one to someone under 21.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure SIG can legally return his handgun to him, seeing as SIG is an FFL...
 
I'm not sure SIG can legally return his handgun to him, seeing as SIG is an FFL
Click to expand...

No transfer was done, and no 4473 was filled out, and no background check performed. Manufacturers may return guns to their owners without going through an FFL.

I showed him all the state Requirement and he still blew it off UPS, State Law, and Federal. All he said was he could get fired and went on his way.
Click to expand...

Right, but if there was an adult signature required sticker, he could have been fired. If there was a sticker, UPS agreed to only deliver the gun to someone 21 years of age or older.
 
...
(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—

(1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age;
...
18 USC 922
Click to expand...
 
Point well taken. My mistake. Part of that law includes
who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe
Click to expand...

My guess is that Sig sent the gun "Adult Signature Required." That sort of covers them under the law you posted, and all shipments I've gotten from Sig came that way.

In fact, it appears that UPS was actually trying to prevent a crime from occurring, since Sig shipping the gun back to its owner was in violation of the law you posted.
 
Don't worry, you aren't the only one who was puzzled. When I got my FFL the ATF gave me a big poster, basically saying what the YHSA notice says, except in bigger font. I'm required to hang the poster at my place of business.

I had never really read it carefully, but one day I did, and I called to tell them that the poster had a typo. They explained that the poster was for the customers, not for the dealer. The guy laughed and said he always hears about the typo on the poster.

I feel like some dealer somewhere has been selling handguns to 18 year old for years, since that's what the big poster says you can do.
 
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