My thoughts after checking out a H&K USPc and a Sig P229 today..

[CPshooter]

Well, I should start off by saying that I'm getting a new handgun soon here in the next 2 weeks or so. I am looking for a nice all-around .40s&w beast and I feel like a H&K or Sig should do me some good.

Now I thought I wanted a Sig P229 ( i still do..), but I took interest in H&K USPc's all of a sudden. I don't want to have a debate on which is better, but I've been comparing and contrasting the two and I don't know how I feel about Sig's SA/DA trigger system. I like the SA trigger, but I don't like how I have to transition from DA on the first shot, to SA on the following shots. Can't keep it in SA, because there's no safety!

I really really like the H&K USPc. I have heard that the triggers are nothing near that of a Sig. I've played with both for plenty of time and dry-fired them several times the last few times I went gun shopping. I found that the H&K trigger felt better and smoother to me, and the sights moved less when dry-firing than with the Sig. I was really impressed. I also like the option of C&L carry since I hate the DA to SA transition. The one thing I cannot get over, though, is the lack of accessory rail on the HK. What is that proprietary bs? I really want the option of attaching a Surefire right on the stock gun!

I am in a bind here. Should I get the H&K for everything else I like about it or am I just letting the light-rail get to me? I know Surefire makes an adapter so I can use it anyways, but I'm thinking that maybe the gun is just a little too compact. The front of the gun isn't long enough to allow the light to tuck in well anyways.. it would be sticking way out in front of the barrel and I'd probably have to clean the burnt powder off the lense every time I shoot it. Don't really care for that, but like I said I DO like the option of having the light on there:banghead:

What's a brother to do?

 

[crazed_ss]

I like the construction of Sigs better. I have nothing against polymer guns (I own a XD), but I really like the aluminum frame on Sigs. It's metal, lightweight, and it doesnt have that plasticky look and feel.

 

[birdbustr]

I've got an H&K .40c SS(don't make anymore) that I have had since 1996 when they first came out. I love mine, and you can't get any better than an H&K for a semi-auto handgun. Don't know about the sight that you were talking about, but Meprolight night sights or Trijicon night sights are an easy to install and only cost about $80.

 

[BlkHawk73]

The front of the gun isn't long enough to allow the light to tuck in well anyways.. it would be sticking way out in front of the barrel and I'd probably have to clean the burnt powder off the lense every time I shoot it.

How often would you shoot the gun with the light attatched? Now if the lens is that far ahead of the muzzle, how much powder is going to get on it anyways and hopw difficult is it to clean a flashlight lens?

What's a brother to do?

Buy the gun that FITS you best and feels best in YOUR hand not by what stuff you can hang from it.

 

[au1776]

I had the complete opposite experience (much preferred the Sig trigger) and recently bought a 229. I'd go with whatever you like best. If you're like me, this probably won't be the last handgun you buy, so you can always pick up the other one somewhere down the road.

 

[Jedi-Brian]

No offense, but are you new to handguns? I mean, getting bent out of shape because Sig has some unique (not really) DA/SA trigger system? Up until the 1990's, you had two choices for an autoloader: Single Action Only (SAO) like the 1911 or BHP and Double/Single Action like EVERYONE ELSE (Beretta, Ruger, S&W, etc...).

As others have said, get the gun that fits your hand best, then TRAIN with it. Remember, the gun is just a tool and will only perform as well or as poorly as the operator. For me, I grew up with the DA/SA system and have no issues what so ever with it. Making a trade off of having less moving parts to fail (such as an external safety) and less stuff to fiddle around with then I need to get the lead out, with having one trigger pull out of the 10+ being DA is not a big deal.

Lastly, if you really want a SAO pistol, then buy one a SAO pistol.

 

[pogo2]

Have both in .40

I've owned both the P229 in .40 and the USP40c for several years. I think highly of both of them, but there are differences.

One of the biggest differences is weight - the empty USP weighs about 24 ounces and the empty Sig about 32 ounces. So the 1/2 pound weight difference makes the USP easier to carry all day, and I prefer the USP over the Sig for a carry application.

The Sig is, however, a little nicer to shoot at the range because of its extra weight. The .40 ammo is fairly lively, and the Sig just recoils less than the lighter weight USP. I would say that both guns are highly reliable and very accurate.

I don't personally mind the DA/SA transition, as I have practiced it quite a bit and it doesn't handicap me. And I don't have the occasion to hang lights on my handgun, so that is not a consideration.

So my bottom line is...Sig for the range or home defense and USP for carry.

 

[ZeSpectre]

I went through a "hang stuff from the gun" phase. It ended.
About the only thing I'd like on my handguns these days are laser grips.

 

[S&W620]

As far as hanging stuff from a USP, GG&G makes an adapter that is about 40 bucks (if I remember correctly) that allows you to attach anything you like. I have a Streamlight TLR-2 hanging from the bottom of my USP as we speak. It is a sturdy little attachment that works well.

As far as the SIG/HK thing, I looked at both and the safety on the USP was the clincher. I've never regretted the decision even for a moment. However, I would also like to add a SIG someday.

 

[Autolycus]

Check out the HK P2000. It is a great gun.

 

[CPshooter]

How often would you shoot the gun with the light attatched? Now if the lens is that far ahead of the muzzle, how much powder is going to get on it anyways and hopw difficult is it to clean a flashlight lens?

I wouldn't shoot it with the light all the time, but my parents have 10 acres and I shoot in the backyard when it gets dark just for fun. A light/laser + watermelons = For the record, I could shoot off a few mags with my old G19, and when I take it inside the lense on my TLR-2 was totally covered in powder residue.

Buy the gun that FITS you best and feels best in YOUR hand not by what stuff you can hang from it.

Well, duh. The thing is they both FEEL amazing in my hand. Both are obviously fantastic guns, and that's what makes this difficult.

No offense, but are you new to handguns? I mean, getting bent out of shape because Sig has some unique (not really) DA/SA trigger system? Up until the 1990's, you had two choices for an autoloader: Single Action Only (SAO) like the 1911 or BHP and Double/Single Action like EVERYONE ELSE (Beretta, Ruger, S&W, etc...).

As others have said, get the gun that fits your hand best, then TRAIN with it. Remember, the gun is just a tool and will only perform as well or as poorly as the operator. For me, I grew up with the DA/SA system and have no issues what so ever with it. Making a trade off of having less moving parts to fail (such as an external safety) and less stuff to fiddle around with then I need to get the lead out, with having one trigger pull out of the 10+ being DA is not a big deal.

Lastly, if you really want a SAO pistol, then buy one a SAO pistol.

Hmm, not sure why I'm getting these type of replies...I'm not an idiot. I have been into shooting handguns for a few years now. I've owned 2 Glocks(19,27), 2 XDs (XD40, XD45), a Kahr PM9, a S&W .357 snubby, and a Walther P99 AS in .40 cal.

I bought all those guns when I had lots of money at my disposal. Well, actually I will be 21 on January 28 (the day I'm getting either the H&K or Sig), so technically they were given to me as "gifts" or "secondary sales" here in Indiana. I payed for all of them though. Then I made the mistake of selling off EVERY single one of those guns last semester:banghead: I lost alot of money in doing so, and learned a very hard lesson about making long-term investments instead of stupid ones. Now the problem is I feel naked, like a part of me is missing without a handgun! I have come across some more money, and I want to buy a higher-end auto. This time I will be keeping it forever.

I never said that Sig's DA/SA is unique. Sorry, but I didn't "grow up" shooting DA/SA guns without manual safeties. I prefer DAO for concealed carry actually. As long as it's a nice and smooth trigger pull like a Kahr might have, I'm ok with it. SAO like a 1911 makes for great accuracy, and I can tolerate the idea of C&L carry even though I prefer my guns "ready to go" like a Glock or XD. I really dislike the transition from DA to SA. I could care less how good you are at shooting with a 12 pound DA first shot. I personally wouldn't waste my time "training" just to overcome a terrible trigger pull. The first shot is most critical. I demand a consistent trigger pull from first shot to last.

That's not to say I won't end up with a DA/SA P229 and just learn to live with it, but I'm simply saying that I like the USP's option of keeping it in SA mode with the safety on with the other option being DA mode with the safety off. Or heck, I can be extra safe if I wanted and keep it in DA mode with the safety on.

I guess some people just don't like new threads to pop up around here

 

[SeanMTX]

What do you mean no accessory rail?

I have a HK USPc .40 and it's got a rail plain as day.

I personally think the Sigs are way too heavy for much carry use. Quality guns no doubt, but they're too bulky and heavy for me to wear in an IWB holster.

The HK is better balanced, easier to train on target, smooth as butter and reliable as hell.

My vote goes with that hands down.

 

[FranklyTodd]

I really dislike the transition from DA to SA.

This is kind of a big deal... Seems like the question boils down to the lesser evil - HK light rail requiring an adapter, or you hate the Sig trigger.

For me disliking the triger is kind of a dealbreaker... Sounds like the HK is the better for you (both are obviously great quality guns). If you are as poor as you let on (20 year old student who sold his whole gun collection last semester) I think there are 1000 guns better suited than Sig or HK, but you didn't ask my financial advice, so I'll zip it up!

Sorry, but I didn't "grow up" shooting DA/SA guns without manual safeties.

Hey no offense - I'll be 40 this year and am just jealous of your youth - but if you are a 20 year old college student, you haven't really grown up at all! I think you still have a lot of time left to develop your shooting habits and preferences... Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[inherentical]

I really dislike the transition from DA to SA.

I prefer DAO for concealed carry actually.

I demand a consistent trigger pull from first shot to last.

Get the Sig with the DAK trigger, then.

 

[Autolycus]

Try the LEM trigger from HK. It is a DAO trigger as well. Just like the DAK it is a love it or hate it type of thing.

 

[10-Ring]

You're gonna end up w/ both at some point anyway (right?) so just get the one you can get the best deal on now & get the other when your piggy bank is full again

 

[Jason_G]

If you're like me, this probably won't be the last handgun you buy, so you can always pick up the other one somewhere down the road.

What he said.

I liked the idea of C&L so I went with the HK when faced with a similar HK vs. Sig dilemma. That said I have the intention of owning the Sig later on, too. Both are great handguns. You won't go wrong with either.

Jason

 

[biscuitninja]

While not quite a 229, I have 225 and a USPc, both in 9mm. I love the USPc, it seems to have a much better break in the trigger. The Sig is a tack pusher though. The recoil in both is pretty small and very managable. I don't know how they would translate to the .40 though.

Have you ever thought about a Glock in .40? Anyways good luck and don't work too hard.

I would just shoot both until you find something you like. Good luck and don't work too hard.
-bix

 

[Jedi-Brian]

First off, let me apologize. The tone of my initial post was rather rude and uncalled for. I am sorry.

What I see is that you are not really sure what you want. After all, you have said that you want to carry C&L, pointing towards a SAO. Then you later (in response to my initial post) mentioned that for carry, you really want a DAO. You say that you don't like "Sig's SA/DA trigger system", yet BOTH of the guns you are looking at are the same in that they are traditionally a DA/SA system. Don't let the fact that you can safe the HK while cocked confuse you, it is at it's heart a DA/SA system.

Why am I making such a big deal about this? Well it comes down to your comments "I personally wouldn't waste my time 'training' just to overcome a terrible trigger pull. The first shot is most critical. I demand a consistent trigger pull from first shot to last." From your statement alone, you are ruling out both guns. If you are not comfortable shooting a pistol in DA/SA... DON'T GET ONE THAT CAN SHOOT DA/SA! By purchasing a gun that is designed to do something you specifically DO NOT WANT, you are introducing old Mr. Murphy into the equation from the onset.

 

[CPshooter]

It's cool. No harm done. I appreciate all the replies everyone!

I am comfortable shooting a DA/SA gun, when it's in SA mode. But this isn't safe for carry unless you have a manual safety. What I don't want is for my only option for carry to be a hard 12 pound DA trigger pull, then the transition to a light SA. I think under real stress it would be hard enough to hit your target as it is. A smooth and light DAO pull like a Kahr would be great for concealed carry because it's still fairly easy to be accurate with. It's only a 6lb pull...

Problem w/ DAO is a long trigger reset which means slow follow-up shots. Although I did read an article in a magazine once where they compared two Sigs, one with DAK and one standard DA/SA. They are probably better shooters than me, and they said there was no significant difference in shooting speed (while maintaining accuracy), between the two. They gave the DAK a thumbs up. I've never shot one though and wouldn't have local access to get one to test shoot, however.

LEM scares me. No trigger safety, no grip safety, and no manual safety if I'm not mistaken. Makes it feel like basically a SAO gun w/ no safety to me. Yikes. Glock is sort of the same, but at least it has the little trigger button safety.

I'm probably going to go with the USPc in .40s&w as of now. I might change my mind, but I doubt it. Now I need to figure out what night sights I want for it The stock trigger system feels great on the USP, but can it be better with some trigger work done to it? Is this worth doing? If so, can I get a link or two?