My Two Bits on the old Bear Gun Debate

[Cosmoline]

I've been doing a great deal of salmon fishing this summer, and I've done extensive hiking and some hunting all around south-central Alaska. Over the years I've tried all sorts of rigs and combinations of firearms for bear defense, and I have come to some conclusions. To cut to the chase, my vote for ultimate bear gun is the one I have--a Mossberg 500 with a pistol grip stock and tactical light loaded with Brenneke 3" hardcast slugs. No buckshot at all.

I'll run down the pros and cons of the various firearms I've used

Ruger SRH .454 Casull (used for @ six months)
--Surprisingly heavy to carry
--Power levels still lower than most rifles
--Very fast draw from a belly holster
--Fast DA firing
--Not easy to use beyond 25 yards
--Ammo expensive
--Flinch issues difficult to overcome
--Poor results when tested on a quick draw and (unaimed) fire
--Firearm nearly impossible to destroy
VERDICT: sold off in favor of lever gun

Marlin 1895G (@2 years)
--Portable and surprisngly light when carried in backpack scabbard
--Good, powerful ammo
--Accuracte out to 100 or 150 yards
--Slower than revolver to draw and fire for first shot
--Crossbolt safety unreliable and switched on and off in pulling from scabbard
--Good results with fast firing from the hip, accurate to 15 yards in this mode
--Recoil rather intense with heavy loads
--Rear tangent sight cheaply made
--Porting filled with crud
--Dirt and mud in action froze the rifle up on several backpacking trips. Little dirt could be tolerated down in the action.
VERDICT: sold off in favor of cheaper rifles

Mausers, Mosin-Nagants, etc (experimental)
--Powerful enough, but too heavy. The best balancing ones were the Mosin Nagant 91/30, which I carried over-the-shoulder on many hikes and the Iranian Mauser Carbine, a wee thing I had to sell off because it was worth so much more than I paid.
Verdict: TOO DARN HEAVY!

FN-49 (only a month or two)
--Powerful modern cartridge favoring heavy bullets
--VERY fast repeat shots
--Heavy even for backpack scabbard
--Very durable
--Very unreliable safety located next to trigger
VERDICT: Very intersting and had a lot of potential, but still too heavy.


Swiss K-31 (@ six months)
--Heavy but tolerable when carried across the front, muzzle down, on a quick-release mount.
--Nice cartridge, but hard to find and expensive
--Fast reliable follow-up shots
--Good performance when muddy
--Extremely accurate
VERDICT: A very nice rifle but too bulky. In sporter stock it might work

Mossberg 500A with pistol grip stock
--Very tough
--Accurate out to 75 yards
--Recoil not intolerable even with magnum slugs
--Ability to fire less-than-lethal bean bag loads, with slug being next round to chamber.
--No rifilng to damage with dirt and crud
--Works even when literally filled with sand and mud. Debris (within reason) are simply blasted out the barrel.
--Very handy for close quarters
--Firing from waist level possible with accuracy out to 25 yards.
--Good knock-down power
--Ammo easy to find.
VERDICT: My keeper.

 

[Das Pferd]

You said loaded with all slugs. But why?

A fast moving bear would be hard to hit with any gun. I think the 00 would be ideal for this. Pretty much aim in the vicinity of the head and fire. Then you have a chance for a follow up shot with the slug.

Not that I have ever enoucntered a bear. Its just what seems like would work

 

[ReadyontheRight]

How do you carry the Mossberg?

 

[StopTheGrays]

Magnum Research BFR in 45-70? Should be enough to drop anything you run across.

 

[WhiteKnight]

I believe a BRF (though a fun gun to shoot ) would be too similar to the .454 that he already mentioned, and carry the same problems he sought to eschew:

Ammo expensive
Flinch issues difficult to overcome
--Poor results when tested on a quick draw and (unaimed) fire

 

[Cosmoline]

I disfavor buckshot because of it's horrible sectional density and because esp at close range you have to aim every bit as much as with a slug. Plus, the magnum brennekes are really impressive--equal at short range to a cranked up .45-70. No buckshot can come close to delivering a single blow of over 3,000 ft. lbs. Granted, I've never done live testing with buckshot And certainly it is one method of giving bad griz a "belly ache" in the bush, but a 400 lb griz is not the same as a 1,000 lb. salmon-fed monster. Just yesterday I saw some boar prints along the muddy banks of the Little Willow where it converges with the Big Su that made me go

I usually carry the shotgun in a Swiss surplus pack with a special carbine sheath built into it. You can find these for under $25 on line. Very well made. If I'm in deep brush and the bear prints are out-numbering the man prints I will keep the shotgun cocked and locked and held low. In the few close run-ins I've had with bear they are down low, not up high. So if one came out of the underbrush you can just aim with your hip. Takes some practice to do it right, but I've got so I can peg a spruce tree at fifteen feet from the waist.

 

[JohnKSa]

My guess is that by the time the bear is in bean bag range you won't have time to jack that slug behind it into the chamber.

Your gun choice is good, but by the time I felt the need to reach for a shotgun, I surely wouldn't want to waste a round testing a bear's pain tolerance.

 

[Onmilo]

We have a local Wildlife studies department that sends groups of scientists and students to Alaska to study the indigenous brown and black bear populations.
They too chose Mossberg 500 12 guage shotguns for bear defense purposes in that region.
They use a mix of pistol grip and standard stock versions, all twelve guage.
While they started out using birch stocked guns, all of the ones they have now have synthetic stocks on them because they stand up to the weather much better than the wooden stocks.
The guns are loaded with one 1 1/4 oz number 4 birdshot in the chamber, safety on, and two Brenneke 2 3/4" slugs in the magazine.
Don't ask me why, that's how they do it.
In over twenty years of study, only one time was one of the shotguns actually fired at a bear and that was with the chambered birdshot load which was enough to drive the aggressive bear away.
They did not see that bear during the rest of the field trip and no carcass was ever recovered so it is believed the birdshot did the job well without causing death to the animal.
Oh yeah, no bear has ever attacked anyone in the region,(Kodiak and western coastal area) and was found to have facial scars caused by a load of number 4 shot.

 

[whm1974]

How about an AK? With pletty 30 rnds mags to go with it. Load them up with steel core HPs and they should do in a bear... Of course it may take a few mags...

-Bill

 

[Cosmoline]

I load with less-than-lethal (for a bear anyway) up front in one situation only, when dealing with my own kill site. Regs are very clear you cannot kill a bear coming to get your deer or moose unless it attacks you directly. Pepper spray is often used, but I put little faith in it.
Thankfully I've never had to deal with the problem of a bear marching up and taking my moose, but the shotgun does offer more flexibility in that situation.

Also, it allows for the launching of flares. Though I've been reluctant to shoot flares from my slugster barrel as it narrows out at the end. I'd hate to see a flare detonate inside the bore!

 

[44Brent]

Ingenious pepper spray/peanut butter trick

I have a friend who lives near Yellowston in Wyoming, and is a former outfitter. His trick is to get a bunch of pepper spray cannisters lathered in peanut butter. He lays them on the ground on the perimeters of his camping area.

1) Hungry smells the peanut butter -- Yum Yum!

2) Hungry bear bites into cannister - Yowee!

3) Bear runs from the camp while screaming bloody murder.

4) Other bears get the idea that there is something "bad" in that area, and start to bug out.

This trick is good for when you are hunkered down in one location When you are on the move, other tactics are needed.