My wife is a teacher...

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Teacher Misconceptions

There was a time when teachers were some of the most conservative members of society. A shift to the left began during the 60's. But many are still conservative. Not that you can't be a liberal who likes guns. I've just never met one.

I shoot trap, skeet, IDPA and pins with teachers, school administrators and a school board member. I talk guns all the time with the people with whom I work.

Maybe living in Texas makes a difference. :neener:
 
As someone who teaches at the university level, I would advise you/your wife/teachers, that while firearms aren't allowed on campuses in most states, pepper spray is. No, pepper spray is not a substitute for a gun, but it is a viable and almost universally accepted personal defense tool. I ALWAYS carry a personal sized tube on me. I've had numerous students come to class drugged out of their minds. While I've never been directly threatened, I never knew what these people were thinking and I always anticipated that they'd have a freak-out in the middle of class. Because pot is now considered socially acceptable to the point of barely being considered a "real drug", many students do harder drugs like magic mushrooms or "shrooms". It's the hallucinogenic factor that I worry about. Given the aformentioned, I would advise your wife to carry some means of self-defense.
 
I knew a pair of campus officers who got pretty banged up trying to take on a lightweight 20-something student who had "only taken a normal amount of shrooms" (unofficial estimate was that PCP was involved). Suspect got tasered 26 times, as I recall. Highly unlikely to be a problem in public schools, but not quite impossible in college.

This is actually an issue close to home for my family...and definitely one in which the law needs to be amended, to allow more specific provisions for concealed carry on campus.
 
teachers only work about half the year
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Wow! :what: tell me where you are so I can move there!
I get two months during the summer (we go until the end of June and start in September), get a week over Christmas, 3 days for Easter, and two days for Thanksgiving. Somehow, that does not add up to 1/2 a year. Not to mention that over that Christmas week I spend most of it grading semester papers and large portions of the summer prepping textbooks (which are changed every three years). Not bad for a salary so low that I still have to live at home. :fire:

Anyway, now that that's off my chest, I guess you can tell that I am a teacher and I have a carry license. I can't bring it on school grounds, but I can bring it with me when I go to the range at night, or when I go out on the weekends. I just think it is a good idea.
 
I only spend about 50-60 hours a week on campus. That leaves about 70% of the week in places I can carry legally. I wouldn't care if it was only 10%, I'll protect myself as well as I can. FWIW.

Let's watch our stereotypes, here, guys. I was a middle school teacher for 32 years. Am an avid hunter/shooter/reloader, and my school had quite a number, including a state champion bullseye pistol shooter. Pls don't assume that anybody in the teaching profession is automatically anti.

Re: time off: Yeah, there are no classes in the summer--which BTW, gets shorter and shorter as time goes by. And thank God for summer off, since school buildings aren't air conditioned (at least in my area--it's an expensive frill, except of course in the principal's office!) During the summer you're expected to pursue your advanced education, and/or develop curriculum, and/or work on new looky-see-nifty-wow demonstrations for the classroom. Normally, at your own expense.

Re: short working hours: The PAID hours are short. That doesn't count all the hours spent correcting papers, and in my (science teacher) role, preparing and cleaning up after, experiments and demonstrations in class. Oh, and budgets and ordering supplies. And irrelevant paperwork. Paid prep time? Less and less every year, and often eaten up with meetings, 'phone calls, parent conferences, etc, etc. Look at it this way: If your little darling got 1 page of homework, I got 140 pages of homework the next day. School let out at 3:15 pm, and many's the night I didn't leave until 6 or 7, or even later. And teachers are always on salary--no extra overtime pay.

Re: pay: The year I started, I had to draw on savings EVERY MONTH to make it to the next month. Pay has improved since then, of course, but don't kid yourself--teachers make squat. Check out a high school parking lot sometime--The staff area will be mostly rusty Chevys and econo-boxes. The student area will be where all the shiny Corvettes and Caddys are. Given the beginning and continuing education requirements of the profession, one can start at better, and make more over the years in business than in public education, with more chances for advancement, and more opportunities for profit on the side.

Re: The kids: This is why I began in education, and why I kept at it as long as I did. If a teacher lasts beyond 1-2 years, they're in in for the kids. Whatever else they believe, or disbelieve, it's in addition to working for, and with, the kids. That's the only justification that makes it worth all the hassles. I still dearly miss the actual TEACHING. If I could have just that, and none of the hassles, I'd go back and do it for nothing.

Re: Respect: This is what it all boils down to--No respect for someone working hard at a tough job. The administration, the school board, and the parents are too much for any one person to fight. The d***ed teachers union?? Durn right we band together--we have got literally nobody else on our side. Oh, I forgot the media, which while being pro-worker generally, is almost unanimously anti-teacher, especially those blankety-blank teacher unions.

Why is it that the most important job in the world, the educating of the next generation (who incidentally will decide which nursing home YOU belong in) is given so little respect in America?

And why oh why is it assumed that every teacher is a card-carrying anti-gun zealot??
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Quoted for Truth Smokey Joe.
 
I guess I didn't pick up on the "teachers hate guns" sentiments, but it should be obvious that I am not anti-gun in any way, shape or form. I think there are some common misconceptions that surround this whole "teachers are liberal" thing. One thing to consider is the fact that in most school districts, and especially here in Colorado after Columbine, teachers are basically forced by districts to be decidedly not pro-gun. Notice I don't say "anti-gun", because no district forces teachers to state opinions not their own (within reason, although I am sure there are christian teachers who hate teaching evolution), but they can easily keep a teachers mouth shut on opinions contrary to policy Secondly, of course there are liberal teachers. To be blunt (and stereotypical in my own way), teaching is a way for bleeding hearts to reach out to the children and impact lives. Many of these teachers crumble under the pressure, which in part accounts for the roughly 50% rate of first year teachers that never come back for the second year, and the roughly 70% of teachers that never make it past their 5th year. That isn't to say that there aren't lots of good liberal teachers out there, because there are. Third, I think people assume that all teachers do is sit there and spout off their own personal philosophies to the kids all day. Not only is that just plain not true, it is considered highly unprofessional to state your own opinion as fact to begin with.

Look, teaching is a hard job. It's not digging ditches and it's not building houses, but it is substantially more work than the average person would think. On Monday, for example, I will be at the high school at 6:30, and between that and going to class at the college, I won't get home until probably 7:00 at the earliest. I should point out that while I keep saying I am a teacher, I am actually a student teacher, so I still have classes to complete at the college. However, I am also 34, so I have been around the block, and I am not speaking from the standpoint of starry-eyed idealism. I am saying that as a man that was a Marine, a manager and a manual laborer, teaching is hard work! One point that I should have mentioned earlier is that teachers are also subject to a very high degree of political wrangling. Between standardized testing, politically correct districts, state standards, under-budgeted schools, uninvolved parents (how many of you know your kids teachers name?) and a million other little things, teachers are put through the wringer every day.

Don't get me wrong, there are some extremely anti-gun, liberal teachers out there, but there are just as many pro-2A teachers, and I think it is important to realize that, even if we do have to keep quiet to keep our jobs.
 
As I work on my PhD., after all these years of (continuous) education mind you, if anything I've become MORE conservative. Unfortunately, most teachers HAVE to join a union if they want to work. I think the unions, combined with the low wages of teachers who are just starting out, is what turns many teachers to the liberal side. Under the guise of wild-eyed idealism, they become anti-gun. The "intellectuals" among them think that by banning guns, you make the world safer. "If teachers carry, we'll have another Columbine," they'll say. Not realizing that children can't legally own firearms and that had a teacher been carrying, Columbine probably would have been stopped cold. I personally would like to see a lobby for CCW on college campuses. I think it'd do wonders in reducing sexual assaults/rapes and would be certainly more effective than those stupid call boxes they have all over campus. As one of my female friends put it, "I don't quite get how those are supposed to work. What Am I supposed to say, 'excuse me, could you stop raping me while I press the call button?' " I think the mere passage of a CCW on campus law would deter crime. Even if nobody actually was packing, a criminal would never know that. I also find it ironic that my liberal colleagues who complain that Bush has turned the US into a police state still want guns banned. I remind them that those same firearms could protect them from the "police state" they think exists, but they say, "well, I shouldn't have to own guns." It's about as sound an argument as saying, "I shouldn't have to wear a seatbelt, people just shouldn't get in accidents or drive drunk", but I'm not alarmed so I must not be paying attention. Intellectuals should stay in the parlor and out of politics.
 
I've had numerous students come to class drugged out of their minds. While I've never been directly threatened, I never knew what these people were thinking and I always anticipated that they'd have a freak-out in the middle of class. Because pot is now considered socially acceptable to the point of barely being considered a "real drug", many students do harder drugs like magic mushrooms or "shrooms". It's the hallucinogenic factor that I worry about.
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Consuming psychedelic mushrooms usually results in giddyness and uncontrollable smiling. I think you have seen too many reruns of dragnet. Psychedellics do not usually make people violent. In fact, the soviets considered a plan to spike american water resivours with LSD in order to turn large numbers of americans into meditating buddhists.

Hard drugs.. cocaine, crack, methamphetamine, PCP, etc. are a different story. They can cause erratic, unpredictable, paranoid and violent behavior.

College kids are tripping, but IMO your threat assesment is a little off.
 
How about in KY? Is the "locked in a car" on school grounds legal or not?
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Shel,

I am pretty sure that as long as it stays in the car and is not brandished it is legal in KY.

edited to add:

From KRS Chapter 527.070

(3) The provisions of this section prohibiting the unlawful possession of a weapon on
school property shall not apply to:
(a) An adult who possesses a firearm, if the firearm is contained within a vehicle
operated by the adult and is not removed from the vehicle, except for a
purpose permitted herein, or brandished by the adult, or by any other person
acting with expressed or implied consent of the adult, while the vehicle is on
school property;
 
I am an instructor at a public college in Arkansas.

I face the same situation.

There is, online, an attorney general's opinion that under the Arkansas law, having one in your car "on campus" or even walking around "on campus" with a CCW piece is legal, but would not be legal for the gun to go into any of the campus buildings.

On the other hand, do you want to be the Arkansas Supreme Court guniea pig so everyone can figure out, exactly, what the law means and says?

I've wrestled with the situation, too.

It would be a bad idea to even look like you might be asking for advice on how to do something that might be illegal.

That being said, weigh the situation, make your own choices, and be prepared to live with the consequences.

On the last issue, I coach an air rifle team.

All the time, I hear folks snort when I tell them that air rifle is an Olympic Sport. They quit snorting when I persuade them to come to our range and shoot a 60-shot match themselves.

They inevitably wind up rubbing their backs and arms and shoulders and saying, over and over "Man, that's a A LOT harder than it looks!"

Same goes for teaching.

I challenge anyone who thinks teaching is a cushy job to go try it for one week, or heck, for that matter, one day. Go do that for a day, and then compare what you did all day to the very small amount of money you get paid.

Report back then on how easy and cushy teaching is.

hillbilly
 
In defense of a noble profession
Let's watch our stereotypes, here, guys. I was a middle school teacher for 32 years. Am an avid hunter/shooter/reloader, and my school had quite a number, including a state champion bullseye pistol shooter. Pls don't assume that anybody in the teaching profession is automatically anti.

Re: time off: Yeah, there are no classes in the summer--which BTW, gets shorter and shorter as time goes by. And thank God for summer off, since school buildings aren't air conditioned (at least in my area--it's an expensive frill, except of course in the principal's office!) During the summer you're expected to pursue your advanced education, and/or develop curriculum, and/or work on new looky-see-nifty-wow demonstrations for the classroom. Normally, at your own expense.

Re: short working hours: The PAID hours are short. That doesn't count all the hours spent correcting papers, and in my (science teacher) role, preparing and cleaning up after, experiments and demonstrations in class. Oh, and budgets and ordering supplies. And irrelevant paperwork. Paid prep time? Less and less every year, and often eaten up with meetings, 'phone calls, parent conferences, etc, etc. Look at it this way: If your little darling got 1 page of homework, I got 140 pages of homework the next day. School let out at 3:15 pm, and many's the night I didn't leave until 6 or 7, or even later. And teachers are always on salary--no extra overtime pay.

Re: pay: The year I started, I had to draw on savings EVERY MONTH to make it to the next month. Pay has improved since then, of course, but don't kid yourself--teachers make squat. Check out a high school parking lot sometime--The staff area will be mostly rusty Chevys and econo-boxes. The student area will be where all the shiny Corvettes and Caddys are. Given the beginning and continuing education requirements of the profession, one can start at better, and make more over the years in business than in public education, with more chances for advancement, and more opportunities for profit on the side.

Re: The kids: This is why I began in education, and why I kept at it as long as I did. If a teacher lasts beyond 1-2 years, they're in in for the kids. Whatever else they believe, or disbelieve, it's in addition to working for, and with, the kids. That's the only justification that makes it worth all the hassles. I still dearly miss the actual TEACHING. If I could have just that, and none of the hassles, I'd go back and do it for nothing.

Re: Respect: This is what it all boils down to--No respect for someone working hard at a tough job. The administration, the school board, and the parents are too much for any one person to fight. The d***ed teachers union?? Durn right we band together--we have got literally nobody else on our side. Oh, I forgot the media, which while being pro-worker generally, is almost unanimously anti-teacher, especially those blankety-blank teacher unions.

Why is it that the most important job in the world, the educating of the next generation (who incidentally will decide which nursing home YOU belong in) is given so little respect in America?

And why oh why is it assumed that every teacher is a card-carrying anti-gun zealot??
Click to expand...

What he said. I'm a Democrat too. :uhoh:
 
She should get one, for the following reasons.

If the two of you are out on the town, and you wish to drink it is possible for her to take the keys and the gun.

It eliminates some unclearness of the laws regarding of transportation. Meaning that if she were to get pulled over and there were some confusion if she was legal, the CCW may save her a hassel of arrest, defending against a legal issue.

If she needs to go out to the supermarket on Sunday she can defend herself and others against criminal attack.

It adds a number to the list of women with a CCW.
 
Texas law does not include school parking lots and it is emphasized in the CHL instructor classes that it is legal to let your kid off at school in the school parking lot while carrying under license. The school employee policy handbook is likely say otherwise. The school district in this area (Central Texas) are virulently antigun and go out of their way to disassociate themselves with youth shooting camps and competitive shooting. Language in an employee manual can jeophardize your job but does not create a violation of the law

If Arkansas is as you said, a lot like texas this may be the case in your area. Also in order for the prohibition against carrying in places of worship to be a violation, you have to have effective notice. Few of them are willing to post the legal 30-06 sign and I don't know if they make regular verbal announcements or not.

"I'm not a teacher, but up here, teachers only work about half the year. They get several months off in the summer, and various other breaks throughout the year. "

A guy I know likes to date teachers because they are able to get off work and out of town fairly easily. He knows that nothing sets a teacher off worse than the above statement. So, when he gets tired of the woman, he merely tells her that she only has to work nine months out of the year and she goes away post haste.
 
A lot of people on this board are socially liberal, or libertarian. They are either open minded or want to be and reject some of the hardass precepts that are usually considered conservative. Part of the problem is that it's more polite to say "Liberal" than Leftist, Totalitarian, or Communist. Use the word "Communist" to describe a Democrat who seems to think Orwell's 1984 was a roadmap to utopia and the listener is conditioned to disregard about 20 points on your IQ score. So, we're stuck with "Liberal Democrat "or "progressive" as a byword for the radical left and true liberals get tared with the same brush. Our media tends to forget all about Joe Stalin's nastiness during the 1950s and concentrate on Joe McCarthy's rude behavior instead.

An English editorialist said, a few years ago that he couldn't understand why we called our Communists and Marxists " Liberals" when they were certainly not liberal in their thinking.
 
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my wife is a teacher and also uses public transportation so she has chosen not to carry.
 
IANAT (been a substitute before, though, and worked in a school), but personally my fears would not be of students, but rather parents. The odds of another Columbine are slim. The odds of having a crazy, ticked off parent getting into a confrontation with a teacher, are much higher, IMO.
 
Smokey Joe, +1.

I taught high school for 8 years and recently 6th grade for another 4. Especially love the 6th graders.

Oh, and I carry. And guess what. Couldn't have my firearm in the car/parking lot as a teacher and I can't now as a corporate employee. :banghead:
 
21st year teaching HS/MS, 5th year in MN, have a permit, don't carry at school. Law here allows it in the parking lot and outside of the vehicle if placing in the trunk. I usually just let it go. I had to clarify for the principal of my last school that he could not legally declare "zero tolerance" for arms and ammunition in the parking lot because of the carry permit provisions. The school used periodic dog inspections of lockers and parking lot. I said he needed to make sure the person did not have a permit before dragging them out of their room, as they would indeed be within the law.

I just feel uncomfortable leaving the firearm for long periods of time unattended. I have a lock box for the car (cabled to the interior). Shouldn't be as big a problem here though as in CA (where I came from). Besides, as one of the young ladies at one school pointed out as she was explaining that the law about guns not being generally allowed on school grounds, "You KNOW that just about every car in the parking lot has a shotgun in it during deer & duck seasons. The kids go out before and after school to hunt. But they know the difference between right and wrong, and just running around killing people would be wrong." It was refreshing to hear that from a 16-year-old female student.

I believe quite a few states probably allow carry if authorized by the superintendent or principal (even CA did). Not many likely to grant it. I guess Red Lake and Rocori may have changed that somewhat here. MN changed their emergency drill counts this year from 1 tornado/1 lockdown/9 fire to 1 tornado/5 lockdown/5 fire. Guess if it hit the fan and someone was coming to the room (science lab), could always fling a bottle of acid at them (though I'm quite certain a 9 mm or .45ACP round would be much more controllable.
 
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