NAA Pug mini revolver-NOT a toy!

[38snapcaps]

I commonly see on gun forums people scoffing at the idea of using a .22 magnum mini revolver for personal defense. Now, I usually carry a .38 S&W but in the ninety degree heat we've had lately I've been putting my Pug in my pocket.

My wife asked me recently, "It looks so much like a toy, are we really safe?"

A picture is worth a thousand words. So the picture I put together consisted of a paper target and some pine boards. The ammo was CCI Mini Mag and Winchester Super X.

All shots were from fifteen ft, one handed or two, it didn't seem to matter.

The paper target was to demonstrate accuracy: All groups were two inches and under, with the Super X being the best performer.

The board target was an inch thick. All shots penetrated completely thru.
Next I placed one 2X4 in front of the board. All shots penetrated both pieces of wood. Lastly I put two 2X4's in front of the board. This time only the Super X bullets penetrated both the 2X4's and lodged halfway into the last.
The CCI's got stuck somewhere inside the second 2X4.

I took my experiment home and now my wife has no problem considering the Pug to be a serious personal defense revolver. I found my confidence in it to be elevated. If those bullets will penetrate almost four inches of wood, what's it going to do to an aggressor on the receiving end?

 

[Quoheleth]

Any chance you took some pics? That would be interesting to see.

Hmmm...I concur about carrying in the heat. I might have to reconsider one of those little pocket rockets if one would come along.

Q

 

[rmfnla]

Yes, a .22 Mag will do some damage; I just don't like carrying a 5 shot single action rimfire for defense.

I've mentioned here before that I carried a .22 LR NAA (in Miami; I hear ya about the heat!) until it misfired at an inopportune time.

I switched to a Beretta .25 Jetfire for those "little gun" moments and have never looked back.

Here's why:

> 9 shots as fast as you need them.
> Reliable feeding
> Improved ignition reliablity
> Improved accuracy (at least in my hands)
> Still VERY small and lightweight

Many people swear by the NAA minis; I guess they are better than nothing.

 

[bigfatdave]

I have a NAA mini in .22mag, and have packed it a few times even.
I also have a KelTec p32, the gun for when I can't have a gun.

I've tested both out on water jugs, and .22mag from a 15/8" barrel blows up jugs about as impressively as .32acp from that 2.7" barrel does (and yes, I know that revolver barrels and mag-fed barrels are measured differently) ... which is to say, not so impressively.

But either is so vastly superior to no gun at all that I won't call them worthless, and the NAA is as reliable as ammo will let it be, while the p32 suffers from the issues any mag-fed gun can.

Mouseguns have their place, you just have to understand their limitations and play to their strengths. I'd say that if you keep the ammo changed out in that mini you're good to go, as long as you understand the limitations ... and while a demo for your wife is good, but getting her to carry too would be better ... ...

 

[MachIVshooter]

You planning on being attacked by framing lumber? Penetration in soft pine does not correlate with good terminal performance in flesh.

Yes, the little mini revolvers are still dangerous. No, I wouldn't carry mine for defense. Not when the little Kel-Tec's and the like carry just as easily and pack a lot more wallop with more capacity and faster action.

 

[Cosmoline]

Out of a rifle at reasonable ranges it can be pretty impressive, like a junior version of the .223 almost. I've seen squirrel basically detonated with these rounds. But that's out of a rifle. I'm leery about them out of a mouse gun. Isn't the blast and flash bad?

Edit: here's some of brassfetcher's earlier .22 Mag tests with the short guns:

http://www.brassfetcher.com/22WMR.html

Not too shabby! But if you'll notice, there appears to be several inches of penetration improvement in performance switching up from the mousegun (results at the very bottom of the page) to a snub nose standard revolver.

 

[rmfnla]

"You planning on being attacked by framing lumber?"

LOL

 

[Fat Boy]

I believe the little revolvers can serve very well when, as stated, people understand their limitations

And like most guns, I think the individual who takes the time to learn, practice, and become proficient with a gun will find it adequate for a great many purposes.

I like those little revolvers, by the way

 

[BADSBSNF81]

An old salty LE type I know says if a NAA in 22 is all you have, the coroner should cuss you as he tries to remove it from the dead body 'cause you shoved it so far up his nose it went into his brain.

 

[David E]

If those bullets will penetrate almost four inches of wood, what's it going to do to an aggressor on the receiving end?

Piss him off, most likely....

 

[MachIVshooter]

Oh, I almost forgot to mention this.........

While I don't think the little NAA's are a good idea for SD, I do not believe they are worthless. I actually found a perfect application for my .22 LR version, as a survival gun in a very compact emergency kit I carry in the woods when I'm packing light.



With the longer barrel, it's reasonably accurate. There are CCI Mini-mag's in the cylinder and a box of 50 Remington .22 Short HV fits easily into the can. I think it'd suffice quite well as a small game getter, maybe even larger critters with a close up and carefully aimed shot to the base of the skull.

 

[bigfatdave]

What's the tin, I must know!

 

[Girodin]

Standing and calmly shooting some pine boards is a pretty poor measure of a defensive weapons attributes IMHO.

 

[David E]

Interesting NAA !

How are your groups at, say, 10 yds?

 

[.38 Special]

If those bullets will penetrate almost four inches of wood, what's it going to do to an aggressor on the receiving end?

Make small through-and-through holes in him, is my guess. Depending upon their location, those holes may or may not make much of a difference to the aggressor.

I think most people would agree that any gun is better than no gun, but that most guns are better than that gun.

 

[mnrivrat]

I'll only make this comment - I am not stupid enough to under estimate the effect of a .22 magnum .

 

[Girodin]

I see much discussion of caliber, while the caliber is certainly not the best choice for defensive use (and rim fire in general presents reliability issues) I think the bigger issue is the how difficult it is to shoot one of these things well, particularly when trying to do so quickly and under body alarm response. Noting the guns mechanical accuracy or what one can do on a square range while casually punching paper does nothing to address those short falls.

Yes it is "better than nothing" but there are a fair number of guns that are very easily concealed that better choices.

 

[Landric]

I have 1 1/8", 1 5/8", and 2" NAA Minis, all magnum frames, with a collection of Mag and LR cylinders. The 2" is a Black Widow with the oversize rubber grips w/ finger groves and fixed Millet sights. The other two have the folding holster grips, and the 1 1/8" has a XS front night sight. The oversize and holster grips make the guns a lot easier to shoot well and control, and the various available upgraded sights make them a lot easier to shoot accurately than the standard front half-moon sight.

As for performance, the CCI Maxi-Mag 40 grain FMJ .22 Magnum averaged about 950 fps and about 80 ft.-lbs. of energy out of the 1 5/8" barrel. The .22 LR CCI Stinger 32 grain HP averaged right at 1000 fps, but only about 70 ft.-lbs. of energy due to the lighter bullet. The magnum had significantly more blast and flash, but that might actually be a good thing, especially at contact range. Neither the Stinger or the Maxi-Mag is a powerhouse, but both averaged more velocity and muzzle energy than all the 98-100 grain .32 S&W Long loads I tried in a 1 7/8" S&W 431PD. Neither velocity or muzzle energy are the full equation when it comes to stopping power, but they do matter to one extent or another.

All that said, the only place I carry any of my NAA Minis is around the house. I tend to wear gym shorts or sweat pants when hanging out at home, and the holster grip NAAs don't drag my pants down and are therefore with me always. Should the need present its self, I only need those 5 rounds of .22 Magnum to get me to a shotgun or handgun actually intended for home defense.

My department recently started a switch from Beretta duty weapons to Glocks. Part of that switch involved selling off all the Berettas the department owned. For some reason, which no one there now seems to remember, the PD owned a Beretta 950 Minx in .22 Short. They only wanted $75 for it, so I bought it. I would rather have had a .25 ACP Jetfire, but if the Minx proves reliable (haven't made it to the range with it yet), it will probably join my NAA in the other pocket as an around the house gun.

I mostly bought the NAAs as fun guns, but they fill the role I have them in for defense nicely also.

 

[EMC45]

Neat survival kit!

 

[KodiakBeer]

I own a .22LR NAA. I certainly wouldn't consider it for carry, but I suspect if drawn and fired into somebodies face it would probably serve to buy you enough time to run like hell.

 

[BCRider]

Wasn't there some group from the Cold War era that was said to have done assasinations using a .22 from up close? Not sure if it was Long rifle, long or just shorts but apparently it was good enough to finish off the victim.

 

[KodiakBeer]

Wasn't there some group from the Cold War era that was said to have done assasinations using a .22 from up close?

It's one thing to sneak up behind someone and shoot them in the brain stem with a .22, but quite another to engage in a gunfight wielding a .22.

 

[Hoxviii]

.22mag > .32acp

Ideal, No, but when it needs to be there is it there? Yes. .22 mag is ballistically the same as the FN 5.7 but with cheaper, more easily accessible ammunition.

Not my first choice, but I'd be comfortable with it if i was comfortable with the gun.

 

[anewconvert]

Lots and lots of people have been executed by the lowly .22.

The long standing belief was that the bullet would enter the skull and just bounce around. Whether thats true or not I don't think really matters. It goes in and does the job.

 

[MCgunner]

I have 2 NAAs. I rarely have occurrence to carry one as a primary, but always have a .22LR in my off side pocket just in case. Beats the heck out of a knife. I can hit well with it to 15 yards, but I've worked with it to find a load and file the front sight to get it shooting POA. The pug has much better sights and is more shootable. I change ammo out every week or two in the heat of summer. Sweat will render misfires when the gun is pocket carried. I know this from actual experience. Keep the ammo fresh, no worries. I also clean any autoloaders I carry once a week. I don't want jams. And, if I can carry a bigger gun than the NAAs, I can carry a .380 or better, usually an 11 shot 14 ounce 9x19 shooting 115 grain JHPs at 1263 fps, not some wimpy .25ACP with no better ballistics than the .22LR. The little NAAs have a place in my collection just on size alone. I have no place for a .25 that is no smaller or lighter than a P3AT or LCP. I used to carry one back when they were the smallest, but if you're going to carry something of that size, you can move away from mouse calibers and get something serious.

Yes, the .22 mag offers more power (that's a relative term, here) than the .25 or .22LR, comparable to the .32ACP (which is why I don't care for .32ACP). There are times when the little mini revolver is all I can carry and it's those few times why I have 'em. Like I say, the little .22 is ALWAYS there because it's just so darned easy to carry. Both reside in folding holster/grips. I can't shoot an NAA without a larger grip and the holster/grips fold up for carry and actually protect the gun a bit.

These little guns are NOT ideal every day 24/7 carries as primary weapons because they are slow, accuracy is limited, and power is low. However, if you can't carry anything larger, there are no alternatives in this size as there are no other firearms this small and light and easy to conceal. With NORMAL dress in NORMAL every day situations, though, I can pocket my Kel Tec 9, my Taurus M85SSUL, or my Radom P64 (9x18 Makarov). I don't just own one carry. I have these three pocket carries and an old Grendel P12 .380 I hardly ever carry, I have many belt carry options if I want to carry on a belt, and these NAAs for uber concealment. I have 25 handguns, about 1/3 of which I can carry either IWB/OWB or pocket if I choose. I don't just pick ONE handgun for my choices. What I do try to do, and the NAA is an exception, is carry DA or DAO autos when I carry autos so they work similar to my revolvers. Best keep the manual of arms similar, draw and fire DA, way I look at it. But, I practice a lot SA with my blackhawks and NAAs and cap and ball guns. Life would be very boring with just one gun.