I wouldn't take it so personally, NMBrian. I understand that you feel it was a simple word choice. But the difference between rights and privileges goes right to the heart of the entire issue. The 2A is not about privileges. I'm sure no one meant anything personal by stating the difference.
National Right-to-Carry legislation moving forward - Will it succeed?
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hermannr
Member
what some of you don't seem to understand: This is not a move to a national firearms permit system.
HR 822 is only a federal law requiring states that allow any carry at all, to recognize the carry license of any other state. There would be no need for all of these "out of state" permits. You would have a permit from your home state and it would be good anywhere in the US just like you drivers license is.
HR 822 is only a federal law requiring states that allow any carry at all, to recognize the carry license of any other state. There would be no need for all of these "out of state" permits. You would have a permit from your home state and it would be good anywhere in the US just like you drivers license is.
I could see the benefit to those who can't obtain permits in their own "may issue" state if they could continue to keep an out of state permit, and their own state would be forced to recognize that out of state permit. Example: a resident of the city of Los Angeles who has a Utah permit might then be able to CCW in California. This would certainly cause tremendous displeasure to the local fuedal lords in Los Angeles, not only because they don't want citizens having guns, but also because they won't be getting any of the $$. For this alone I hope it passes.
Deltaboy1984
Member
It would be nice to go to Chicago or NY City and be able to carry.
rscalzo
Member
As far as the National Police Organization, I've never dealt with them or used their resourses. What I find interesting is their website.
http://www.policefoundation.org/
Check their "Links" and scroll down to Gun violence. You will see the reason for that quote.
http://www.policefoundation.org/
Check their "Links" and scroll down to Gun violence. You will see the reason for that quote.
jonmerritt
Member.
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I am amazed at the claim of states rights on this, it is the second amendment. There is no "states rights" on this, period. The claim of "states rights" is just a way to ignore the 2nd amendment at the state level. Which is what some states and lower governments have been sued over and they lost. The states have no rights, the people have the rights.
archigos
Member
2nd Amendment ensured by interstate trade.
It almost passed last year when the legislature was dominantly controlled by the Democrat party. I'm thinking its quite possible that it'll pass this time around, but our current president will never sign a bill that ensures individuals' rights over governments'.
It almost passed last year when the legislature was dominantly controlled by the Democrat party. I'm thinking its quite possible that it'll pass this time around, but our current president will never sign a bill that ensures individuals' rights over governments'.
Dnaltrop
Member
Breathe NM...
It's the same sort of correction you'll get if you start talking about loading clips into your semi autos. My old man loves his Mausers, so I still slip up from years of Stripper clips (or do i? MUA HAHA) . I need a Broomhandle Mauser just to allow me to sow confusion when people correct me
Rights are (supposedly) inalienable, Privileges can be taken away at a whim. A driver's license is a privilege, RKBA is a Right. The very distinction between the two is the heart of the disagreement between "us" and "them"
No-one means any disrespect, only to educate and support each other here. You're among friendlies.
It's the same sort of correction you'll get if you start talking about loading clips into your semi autos. My old man loves his Mausers, so I still slip up from years of Stripper clips (or do i? MUA HAHA) . I need a Broomhandle Mauser just to allow me to sow confusion when people correct me
Rights are (supposedly) inalienable, Privileges can be taken away at a whim. A driver's license is a privilege, RKBA is a Right. The very distinction between the two is the heart of the disagreement between "us" and "them"
No-one means any disrespect, only to educate and support each other here. You're among friendlies.
CapnMac
Member
Well, unless my understanding of HR 822 is flawed (and well could be, from previous drafts and attempts) is that one's home state would be one's home state and the laws would still obtain upon one. If a person could use a Utah license in Oregon, it would not be to Utah rules, it would be to Oregon's laws.
States that wanted to be restrictive, will be allowed to (if I'm reading rightly), NYS or CA could say that, yes you can have an arm, but it much be compliant. So, they might say, well our AWB or magazine capacity, or, as NJ, ammunition restrictions apply. And your other choice would be locked in the trunk unloaded.
Bernie Lomax
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but this bill would allow residents of the lucky four (Vermont, Alaska, Arizona and Wyoming) to CCW nationwide with no permit, no?
No way in hell this is going to pass. An ice cube in hell has a better chance than this bill.
No way in hell this is going to pass. An ice cube in hell has a better chance than this bill.
Good in theory only. One of the major differences is with DL, practically everyone has one and or wants one. Even criminals and ExCons have one. With guns only a small minority really have one or want one. People me included don't look at fire arms as an absolute necessity the way they look at a DL. I like that I have the right and ability to have fire arms, but would live without one just as easily (Not suggesting that I am willing to give up my rights of course!!!). Now life would be miserable without that DL, and I would up and move to place I could have one. So when it comes to voting and forcing our will, we have less in terms of numbers to carry the fight. If the opposite were true, the politicians would be powerless to stop it, they only can, because the people allow them to or are even supportive of them doing so. How many anti-DL people do you suppose there are in the country as opposed to the masses of anti-2A folks?
Dnaltrop
Member
I was just wondering that myself Bernie... with no CCW card to carry, would the driver's license from AK, VT, AZ, or WI become their de facto CCW card? or would the laws require that said person file for a Carry permit from any other state?
alsaqr
Member
Excellent post.
A person who lives in a may issue state cannot obtain a concealed carry permit. That person gets a FL permit to carry that is good in a bunch of states but not his home state. Now that person from the anti-gun state wants to use his FL permit to carry in every other shall issue state.
"National right to carry" is an infringement on states rights. Thankfully it is going nowhere.
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archigos
Member
Among those, VT is the only one that does not issue a CCW permit. The others still do for reciprocity purposes; I imagine it would continue to be handled in the manner it is now, though, ironically, for VT I believe that just means that you don't get reciprocity at all.Dnaltrop said:
To clarify, do you folks believe that enforcement of the 2nd Amendment upon states is a violation of states' rights, or do you just believe that this does not fall under the category of enforcement of the 2nd Amendment because it still requires a permit to exercise a fundamental right?
Tim the student
Member
Nope, it won't go anywhere anytime soon.
Which is a good thing, IMO.
Which is a good thing, IMO.
so the federal govt' is infringing upon the state govt's right ...to infringe my rights....i dont have a problem with this.
i still find it amazing that people disagree with something that gives you more of your rights back because it its technically "infringement"....
if by some crazy happenstance, they decided to allow people to carry EVERYWHERE in the US, openly or concealed, PPK or a howitzer, in any state, and all you needed was a permit, which they would hand deliver to your house...and it was as easy as picking up the phone and asking for it, and they would give it to you no questions asked...for free....and theyd even throw in a free 1911 and AR-15
you would still have people objecting to it because it was an "infringement" because you shouldnt need a permit.
while true...you shouldnt need a permit.....but this is the world we live in........they arent all of a sudden going to drop the firearms laws in every state all at once.......you need to take what you can get back, when you can get it.
the "all or nothing" types are never going to get 'all'.....it simply wont happen, it never has worked, and never will work......which means they are inevitably going to end up with 'nothing'.
i still find it amazing that people disagree with something that gives you more of your rights back because it its technically "infringement"....
if by some crazy happenstance, they decided to allow people to carry EVERYWHERE in the US, openly or concealed, PPK or a howitzer, in any state, and all you needed was a permit, which they would hand deliver to your house...and it was as easy as picking up the phone and asking for it, and they would give it to you no questions asked...for free....and theyd even throw in a free 1911 and AR-15
you would still have people objecting to it because it was an "infringement" because you shouldnt need a permit.
while true...you shouldnt need a permit.....but this is the world we live in........they arent all of a sudden going to drop the firearms laws in every state all at once.......you need to take what you can get back, when you can get it.
the "all or nothing" types are never going to get 'all'.....it simply wont happen, it never has worked, and never will work......which means they are inevitably going to end up with 'nothing'.
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Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Summary: It's about reciprocity, not carry per se. And it's not likely to be signed.
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