National SOS Radio network based on FRS walkie talkies

[TexasRifleman]

National SOS System

For those interested in emergency communication, this is a new idea resulting from the communications breakdowns in New Orleans last year.

If you are a ham radio operator you especially need to be aware of this if you wish to help out.

In an emergency situation: Citizens tune your FRS radios to Channel 1 and transmit your emergency messages.
Ham radio and GRMS radio operators tune to 462.5625 MHz (the frequency that corresponds to FRS Channel 1) and relay the emergency messages to police & fire departments, and national rescue & relief agencies.

 

[Sistema1927]

As an Amateur Radio Operator, I predict that this idea isn't going to go anywhere.

Hams involved in EmComm (Emergency Communications) are already up to their ears in traffic from their served agencies during an emergency. Having to monitor traffic from unknown individuals of dubious importance isn't an additional burden that they are going to take on. Every person with an FRS radio is going to think that their problem is a priority, not to mention the potential for troublemakers to divert resources.

EmComm is getting more structured (requirements for NIMS proficiency, etc.), and this is a step in the opposite direction. Sorry, no cigar.

 

[TexasRifleman]

EmComm is getting more structured

And how exactly is someone that has no idea what EmComm even means supposed to ask for help in an emergency?

unknown individuals of dubious importance

So the man on the street with an FRS radio that might need help is of "dubious importance"? Nice.

The idea is that hams and other better trained people will be able to filter through the mud of general BS from the guy on the street and hear legitimate calls for help.

But hey, why try to help the population in general huh? Let's only help people that "go through the proper agency" in asking for help. That worked out so well in New Orleans.

And a good majority of hams, myself included, have no interest (or time) in participating in ARES/RACES and the other more "structured" methods but would be more than willing to help in other ways when things really turn nasty.

Another link for those that might actually want to help, more info here. It's the beginning of a good idea that might go somewhere, why not consider it?

http://www.emcomus.org/commwp.html

In our case here I particularly like the idea of a community to community backup comminucation system. Might serve well in a longer term "SHTF" situation.

 

[Spot77]

I keep a pair of FRS's on my boat with me, along with my VHF radio. There's an amazing amount of comm traffic on the water; it seems that many boaters have taken to using these to communicate with others in their fleet or power squadron.

oh....I keep a pair onboard in case I have to tow somebody or be towed in myself in case of a breakdown.The radios are much better to use than yelling at somebody 60' away with your motor growling.


While I agree that they are sub par as far as a reliable, serious means of communication, they can serve a purpose when a lot of people are using them wisely.

 

[Sharpdogs]

Didn't some shop keepers use CB radios during the LA riots. The FRS radios could be useful for keeping in touch with neighbors.

 

[mete]

In major emergencies organized communications works -unorganized communications don't !! During Katrina it was repeated again and again that hams should not come on the own, they don't know where to go or what to do !! In my area Hams do very well assisting the OEM but we do it in an organized way and we are constantly improving techniques and getting training such as the NIMS [FEMA] courses. We also get practice in volunteer efforts at things like automobile rallys .FRS may be fine for communicating within a family but that's all ..AC2RC

 

[WvaBill]

UPDATE -- Amateur radio operators can operate on any FRS / GMRS frequency (or any frequency at the operator's disposal) during an emergency.

I am glad they cleared that up. That was confusing on Element 2.

 

[Sistema1927]

So the man on the street with an FRS radio that might need help is of "dubious importance"? Nice.

Everyone out there thinks that their problem is a priority, but it often isn't. Their minor inconvenience isn't as important as traffic related to the preservation of life or property.

The idea is that hams and other better trained people will be able to filter through the mud of general BS from the guy on the street and hear legitimate calls for help.

Communicators should do just that, communicate. They shouldn't have to waste resources filtering through the mud of general BS. Just how many false alarms and stubbed toes must one wade through when there is priority traffic that needs to be handled?

But hey, why try to help the population in general huh? Let's only help people that "go through the proper agency" in asking for help. That worked out so well in New Orleans.

Well, EmComm worked very well in Katrina, it was other things that had problems. The structure of ARES/RACES that you distain has only improved since that time. Your comments are a direct slam against all of those who participated in the Katrina relief efforts. Were you there? Did you see things for yourself? If not, then you don't have any credibility. Just what is the problem that you are wanting to solve?

Go ahead and organize your litle FRS network, but don't impede legitimate EmComm in the process.

 

['Card]

Were you there? Did you see things for yourself? If not, then you don't have any credibility.

Can you get any more insecure, abrasive and defensive, or have you pretty much maxed it out at this point?

That same old stale crap about "you weren't there so you have nothing to contribute" is the epitome of useless, blind arrogance. I've done a ton of disaster response work in my day, but when someone has a good idea or a valid suggestion, the last thing I'm going to do is question whether or not they've "been there" and "done that". I shut up, pay attention, and see if maybe I can learn something.

I suggest you do the same.

 

[Jeff White]

Allright, let's keep it on the high road.

There are valid arguments both for and against a system like this.

For:
More observers never hurt anything.

It's obviously going to be easier for someone with an emergency to find a person with FRS capability then it is for that person to reach a ham operator, especially if landline and cell communications are out or very spotty.

Against:

More observers with direct access into the system will most likely tie things up and slow response down as the operators have to sort through all that traffic and prioritize responses. It happens with 911 all the time. Here there are two 911 call centers in the county. Each one is responsible for approx. half the county population wise. For 2/3 of the day there is one 911 telecommunicator in each center, during peak hours there are two operators.
A major accident on the interstate can tie up the system with 50 or more 911 calls to that single operator in the space of a couple minutes. Dispatch of fire, EMS and police is slowed because the operator is trying to dispatch units by radio and answer all those calls. The system is very easy to overload.

There has to be some way to triage all those FRS calls or you will simply overload the system, just like cell phones overload 911.

Jeff

 

[Wheeler]

I believe the idea has merit. Jeff is right, more observers means more information to the coordinators. On the other hand, to much info flowing in too fast means the coordinators get innundated with duplicate calls, which have to be weeded through, thus slowing down the triage and dispatch process.

Sistema is right as well, every person with a radio and a sense of urgency will firmly believe that they need to be delt with RIGHT NOW! THe bad thing with any form of half duplex form of communication is that aas long as they are talking, they have that freq. tied up unless you have a more powerful transmitter.

This situation is perfectly suited to the "defaulting to the highest level of training, not rising to the occasion clause." I don't believe that this type of system would be workable without training people on protocols and procedures. Which takes this concept from the be-a-volunteeer-and-be-ready type of thing to a proactive form of training and a systematic integration with existing volunteer radio systems.

What sets apart HAM operators is they have taken the first steps, they have went out on their own, bought or built their equipment, taken the tests, and so forth. Going to Wal-Mart and buying a mediocre set of FRS radios is a convinience thing for most folks, so they can keep track of their kids at the mall or to use during other outings.

Community awareness is the key, followed by training. You'll have more luck moving this forward at CPR and First Aid classes, or some other part of community service type of event.

Best Regards,

Wheeler

 

[Manedwolf]

Due to the fact that you can literally buy a Hello Kitty or Power Rangers FRS for kids to play with for less than twenty bucks, I predict that this would be absolutely worthless.

It'd be one mess of chatter in multiple languages, along with some moron who thinks they're hilarious by making crude suggestions in a false voice.

As for other forms of communication, I'm rather dismayed that a lot of new cellphones coming out, including the most high-end models like the Samsung Blade...are digital-only. No analog backup. And in a disaster, the short-range digital service is the FIRST to go out, roaming analog has far, far more range and works for most phones regardless of carrier.

If people want a personal disaster communications device to call for help, they can always get hold of a no-service cellphone with a good-sized antenna from a yard sale. Even no-service cellphones can call 911. If FEMA wants something productive to do, they could put together some self-powered analog cell service relay towers to move quickly into areas after a disaster.

 

[Mannlicher]

Despite the glowing ideals involved, without comm discipline, its useless. I don't see this as a viable 'system'. Now if you push the button, holler for help, and someone answers, thats fine. but don't expect to use FRS to save your bacon.
Folks should spend a lot more time and effort on self sufficiency for at LEAST the short term, and not worry so much about getting help.

 

[mete]

I should be remembered that in every disaster the telephone and cell phone systems become jammed since there are so many idiots who decide to caal their friends and chat about it instead of leaving the lines open for emergencies . FRS would be the same !

 

[Sistema1927]

A learned friend of mine tells me that this idea is more in the province of the CERT Teams, and recommends that anyone interested in this take the FEMA IS-317 course.

I have already taken IS-100, 200, 700, 800, 7, 22, and 288, I guess that I am going to have to add IS-317 to my list.

For those interested:

http://training.fema.gov/emiweb/IS/crslist.asp

(You might just find some of the courses very interesting and informative.)

 

[Cosmoline]

It's an interesting idea, but HAM radio is dying, literally. The feds have regulated it up the yin yang and there's less and less interest in it among younger generations. As the internet becomes less dependent on local working phone lines and more alternate signal sources become available, it will be the source of non-government information during a disaster.

For example, imagine if a nine pointer hits Anchorage now. As my cable connection stands, it would die instantly and likely take a month or more to set up again. But in ten years I'll likely have a durable laptop with the ability to get a signal from remote DSL stations, wireless ISP's and possibly satellite. I could communicate directly with relatives and my personal emergency services (ie friends in the sticks) without having to rely on the notoriously hopeless official authorities. I could then have a much easier time setting up my own evac, bypassing the boneheads at FEMA completely.

I see little value in a system that simply allows you to bitch and moan to some old guy on a HAM who then MIGHT pass your requests on to an agency which MIGHT do something or more likely will put you down for a trailer in the Arkansas mud. The proper response to a major disaster is to AVOID the authorities, as we've all seen. Make your own way out, and make sure you have backup plans.

 

[Sistema1927]

Cosmoline, I am not wanting to deal with your comments about avoiding the authorites, but rather your assertion that Amateur Radio is dying.

To the contrary, Ham Radio is more relevant and important than ever. With the explosion of digital modes, Amateur satellites, and other nifty technology, Amateur Radio is going to be around for a long, long time to come, and it will still be the means of communication that still works when everything else has gone in the toilet. Many thousands of messages were passed in and out of the Katrina Disaster area using some of the newer digital technology with 100% accuracy. A friend of mine today was telling me how he passed about 100 H&W (Health & Welfare) messages via a digital mode in under 1 minute.

Even the oldest Amateur Radio technology is efficient, as witness the recent segment on Jay Leno's show where two Hams using Morse Code handily beat two young folks using text messaging to transmit and recieve a message.

 

[Cosmoline]

It is important, to be sure. But it also dying.

http://futureofradio.typepad.com/the_future_of_radio/ham_radio/index.html

The number of U.S. holders of ham radio licenses peaked at 687,860 in April, 2003, but since then has declined by 26,779

The losses in the "novice" license category have dropped even more rapidly and are now at nearly half their former levels.

Art Bell has been predicting this for at least a decade. The problem is, the new young tech heads who would have been into short wave and HAM in the old days are now gravitating towards computers. You have go through FCC licensing BS and take an exam to get on board with HAM. In contrast, the internet is still (blessedly) a largely FCC free zone and in spite of gob'ments best efforts we don't have to pay a stamp tax to send emails or take a test to get online.

Even the oldest Amateur Radio technology is efficient, as witness the recent segment on Jay Leno's show where two Hams using Morse Code handily beat two young folks using text messaging to transmit and recieve a message

But considering the fact that the Hams had to learn morse code, learn to operate the machinery, learn to set up the machinery, FIND the machinery in the first place while the youngsters just grabbed two of countless millions of cells able to text message and used them, the overall time investment makes texting far easier and in the big picture, far faster.

 

[Sistema1927]

Seeing as how there have been no Novice licenses issued for quite a few years now, it is no surprise that their numbers are declining. It had not been the "entrance class" license since prior to 1991 when the "no code" Technician was introduced. (Same goes for the Advanced Class, only three license classes are granted now: Technician, General, and Extra.)

Also, the fact that overall numbers are declining isn't a problem, many of the old timers who are dying off hadn't been active for sometime anyway. A check of the bands will show that they are still quite active.

In the next disaster, you grab your cell phone, and I will use Amateur Radio, possibly using MT63 on 40 or 75 meters. We will see who can get through. Yes, I had to invest the time to get the license and gain proficiency, as well as purchase the equipment and emergency power in order to keep it working, but it will work when the cell phone system is overloaded or out of commission. Also, during the two weeks last September that I spent in Louisiana, there wasn't any Internet access to be had, so much for that.

Amateur Radio isn't for everyone, but for some of us, as well as the agencies we serve, it will still do the job.

 

[Cosmoline]

Certainly, and I'm not denying it is USEFUL. But it's not something the rest of us can hope to utilize or rely on in a disaster, esp. as the decades roll on and other technologies replace the old HAM outfits. It's barely even "amature" any more, considering the amount of training, equipment and licensing you go through. Not to mention the fact that, as you say, you really function as a part of the government during disasters. I wouldn't be surprised to see HAM's bandwidth hacked down and to see the remaining operators folded into the feds.

But all that aside, my point is that the only people who can expect to be able to utilize HAM radio when it hits the fan are the license holders and the government agencies they work with. The rest of us are on our own. And whether or not HAM radio still exists in its current form in ten years, an emergency communication system that attempts to dump all the personal messages of millions of people into the lap of Grandpa Sparks is not a viable plan. Nor is it reasonable to expect a bunch of new people to get set up with more HAM outfits, given the expense, complexity and licensing issues. We need to have our own emergency communication systems set up that don't require federal licenses to utilize.

 

[beerslurpy]

The essential problem seems to be that during an emergency, there will be many people needing help, and little of it to go around. Ham radio operators cannot fix this problem. The best they can do is slightly pare down the mountain of requests for help so the most obviously urgent ones get higher priority.

But even if we assume the requestors of help are honest, we cannot really get around the fact that emergency personnel arent actually staffed for large scale emergencies. 4 EMTs in 2 ambulances cant do anything about 400 simultaneous heart attacks or shootings. If you have a dozen deputies, where do you send them when there are several hundred crimes in progress?

The real solution is for people to become more self sufficient so that people dont create so many demands for assisstance. This sort of societal adjustment would also ease the load on 911 during times of peace.

I know it sounds like a simplistic solution to a complex technical problem, but it isnt really a technical problem at all when you think about it.

 

[Highland Ranger]

I've gotten back into radio recently to experiment with emergency communication.

Thought the kids would get a kick out of it but no interest.

The big deal for us was talking with people far away who we didn't know.

Well our American kids play Call of Duty (WWII game) with the grandchildren and great grand children of the German soldiers who fought the war on the other side every day on the internet.

They chat on cell phones and watch movies in their hand.

I'm afraid Amateur radio can't hold a candle to that. Even if it is useful in once in a blue moon.

Add on top of that the elitist attitude of Hamers and you get a soon to be dead hobby.

If you look at the license numbers Vs population growth you'd get a more accurate picture of the decline I believe . . . .

 

[Tomcat1066]

I've looked into Ham radio in the past, and actually wanted to do it as a kid, but you know what? Jumping through hoops to even get STARTED in a hobby just wasn't worth it. After all, what if I spent all that time and money and it turned out that I hated it? As such, my parents didn't fork out the money. Now that I'm a parent, I can't say that I blame them.

Just my 2 cents.

Tom

 

[Sistema1927]

I guess that if you want to participate, you will get involved. If you don't, you won't.

Sort of like learning to fly, or gaining proficiency with firearms, or being prepared for the next big storm.

 

[c_yeager]

So the man on the street with an FRS radio that might need help is of "dubious importance"? Nice.

Look up what dubious means.

Miscelaneous traffic that is comming through on a radio set that is being used to coordinate emergency services during a disaster is going to be treated like static at best. Its going to take the full use of resources just to keep the response infrastructure running in anything resembling an effecient manner, noone is going to be coming to help some guy on his handheld when they are busy trying to keep several thousand people alive who dont know which hospital is full and which one isnt or which bridge is clear and which one is on fire. The fact is that in all likelyhood your going to be on your own, so prepare for *that*. Do not expect to be able to call for help with anything. The more people on a channel at once, the less likely it is that your going to find anything usefull.